Inside 3 Locks Brewing with Kuba Zaleski

Martin (00:00)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Beer Rep Chats with and proudly sponsored by the Keg Warehouse. today I am delighted to be joined by Kuba, brewer at 3 Locks Brewing in Camden. Kuba, thanks for joining the show.

Kuba (00:15)
hi Martin. Yeah, thanks for for having me.

Martin (00:18)
mate, it's it's a pleasure to have you on. I'm a big fan of of Camden Brewery and you know 3 Locks sorry ⁓ brewery and based in Camden, to get my words correct.

Kuba (00:26)
Yeah, i

yeah, only our biggest competitor.

Martin (00:29)
Yeah, yeah, let's not mention Camden Brewery. Yeah, we don't we don't we don't talk up global  breweries  on this podcast. ⁓ so for listeners that you know meeting you for the first time as as a brewer at 3 Locks, yeah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and, you know, what hooked you on craft beer and made you think, you know, this is what I wanna do with my life.

Kuba (00:49)
Yeah, so it's sort of ⁓ a funny story 'cause I was just living with my father in ⁓ in Scotland. I was back then living in Poland, finishing my degree. ⁓ and he brought me a beer he thought I would like 'cause it had some some ⁓ like fantasy themes on it and it was a Hobgoblin for a supermarket. And I just like and I know a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't consider it like fully craft but for me like coming from Poland when like

Martin (01:12)
Okay, yeah.

Kuba (01:19)
just like Czech style pilsners ⁓ or kink or like global breweries like yeah we we didn't have a lot of like craft brewery To be fair we had we had zero craft brewing at the time I think. ⁓ and having like something completely different like with more malty backbone with different type of hops and just made me like really into it and then I spent the next year homebrewing ⁓ just trying to to to get different flavours ourselves I was trying to actually make a Hobgoblin clone.

with with a very mixed results. ⁓ and ⁓ yeah then the opportunity opportunity to study at Heriot Watt ⁓ came about because I was just finished my graduate ⁓ degree and I wanted to look for a masters. ⁓ and my father really wanted to me to move to Scotland to to to stay with him for a while. ⁓ so I've taken that and yeah that's that's sort of how I began.

Martin (01:47)
really?

Yeah, so bit of bit of hobgoblins. What sort of clone recipe was you doing home brewing? Was it like an extract kit or was it a

Kuba (02:19)
Yeah, so so the the first one I started was was an extract and then ⁓ I didn't like that at all. I just thought there's even even as a very young home brewer, I  thought there's like not enough control over what's happening. ⁓  I very quickly so like I've very like the the first thing I I've ⁓ I've done as a home brewer ⁓ was to realise that A, I need to switch to full grain.

Martin (02:33)
Yeah, definitely, yeah.

Kuba (02:45)
⁓ straight away. So this was just like I I've only done one brew of extract. And ⁓ temperature control is extremely important.

Martin (02:55)
Yes, definitely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I jumped straight into all grain because I just know it's no point doing extract. I mean, extract helps, ⁓ in certain areas if you want to boost ABV, etcetera, 'cause it's obviously ⁓ y you can use it with your all grain as well, extract, can't you? So ⁓

Kuba (03:12)
yeah, o

of course. It's it's like an extra tool you've got in your in your toolkit, especially if you want to do ⁓ high gravity beers. ⁓ but yeah, just just just solo extract is not the way I want it to go at the time.

Martin (03:19)
Yeah.

No, all grained away. ⁓ more more satisfaction in my eyes, much much much more satisfaction. So how how would you early days sorry go back and say early days in brewing? obviously you said you started home brewing, you know, what lessons from that period kind of still influence you in in what you brew today?

Kuba (03:45)
I definitely figured out that brewing is not as ⁓ not as much as recipe making and ⁓ just trying to influence flavour at the beginning at least. It's a lot of like heavy lifting, ⁓ scrubbing of the equipment, making sure everything's sterile, looking after it every day, ⁓ and not just ⁓ trying to figure out a next new  of beer. Also, ⁓ even at like homebrewing stage.

Martin (04:03)
Lots of cleaning.

Kuba (04:15)
I find out how hard is to actually sell beer or like to find people to drink it, 'cause I was giving my beers away and I had a problem with with actually like finding enough people to to drink it. And the beer wasn't as bad. Like I know what you think, like the the beer was ⁓ that terrible, but no, it wasn't it wasn't that. Even even even 'cause I mean probably because I was I was a part of Heriot Watt as well, ⁓ almost everyone at Heriot Watt was was Homebrewing so everyone had lots of beers to give up. ⁓ it

Martin (04:30)
Okay.

Yeah.

Kuba (04:43)
giving up the beers to to people was hard, but then getting the bottles back was even harder.

Martin (04:49)
Yeah, I can imagine, yeah. I mean most of them probably w what throw them away afterwards, I'd imagine, thinking it's a like a disposable glass. yeah. Them but yeah, them bottles, yeah. Very, very nice, they're Grolsch style bottles. They're the flip caps, aren't they? Where they Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So how would you describe yourself as a brewer now? Like what are the things that you value most when creating a a recipe or or a new beer style?

Kuba (04:54)
Yeah, I I had a I had a nice like Grolsch style bottles so I wanted them back.

Yes, yes, exactly.

I would say

I do like to ⁓ go for stuff that's not necessarily tried quite often. ⁓ for example, like out of my recent brews, I did ⁓ a lime and mint ⁓ sour beer that ⁓ sort of something to to resemble like a a mojito on a hot day. ⁓ and it had like a

Martin (05:41)
Yeah.

Kuba (05:46)
it turned out to be a very marmite beer because ⁓ some people absolutely swear by it and others ⁓ yeah, others hated it ⁓ straight away. ⁓

Martin (05:52)
Some people hated it. I think that's

with sours in general, I think. you know, you either get people that really like or people that don't. It's it's it's never kind of in between.

Kuba (06:01)
Yeah, but ⁓ funny enough with w

with this one I had a lot of people who don't like sours love it. And then a lot of like regular sour drinkers that like fruited sours, ⁓ just just couldn't ⁓ couldn't get past the the  mint side of things I think.

Martin (06:07)
Okay.

Yeah, what was the what

was the final pH? Was it quite tart or?

Kuba (06:20)
⁓ pH I  don't think it dropped that low.  I think it was like three point two. but I do yeah, I don't think I don't think pH itself is a is a good indicator of ⁓ of sourness of the beer. ⁓ what would should really be measured is the total acidity. and ⁓ having said that I haven't actually I did measure it.

Martin (06:25)
Yeah. So it's quite a quite a tame sour then not to like puck off the lips.

Kuba (06:47)
I don't remember what it was off the top of my head.

Martin (06:51)
So yeah, learn something new every day and checking the acidity rather than the pH level. I mean, obviously the pH has got to be quite low for a sour beer anyway. Yeah.

Kuba (06:57)
yeah, yeah, of course. But yeah, j just

just ⁓ total acidity would be a ⁓ more accurate ⁓ way of measuring sourness of the beer. and yeah.

Martin (07:07)
And how how'd you go

about measuring the acidity level? 'Cause I've I've never never done that, so

Kuba (07:11)
⁓

there are titration kits you use to to so basically ⁓ same way you'd you'd titrate for water hardness or for

I don't know what else we measure with titration, but there's there's only a few things. So you you you basically find ⁓ indicators, so something that changes colour in ⁓ in acid environment, and then titrate with a big alkaline solution, ⁓ to find out how much alkaline solution you need to add to neutralise it to back to so and then the the whatever indicator is changes ⁓ loses the colour change.

Martin (07:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, so you use a like a colour chart kind of thing, ⁓ and then you you can measure the acidity levels by the the change of the colour by adding ⁓ certain chemicals.

Kuba (07:55)
Mm-hmm.

No y y y so

so you you change the colour with the indicator first and then you actually want to ⁓ titrate long enough to for for it to return to the neutral colour. So the the the the colour pre pre addition.

Martin (08:13)
Get you. ⁓ understand now. ⁓ yeah, so there you go, people. That's how you measure your acidity in your in your sours ⁓ or in your beer. So ⁓ you joined 3 Locks Brewing, it's based in the heart of Camden. ⁓ how did that opportunity come around?

Kuba (08:29)
⁓ so I was working for Hammerton Brewery at the time and ⁓ very good brewery. I wasn't much looking for a change. but I've seen an advert and ⁓ it wasn't ⁓ far from where I was from where I was at the time. So we have from from Islington to Camden is probably like five minutes ⁓ on ⁓ it was probably a five minute cycle for me.

Martin (08:34)
yeah. Very good brewery as well.

Kuba (08:59)
⁓ so I did apply, I stopped by the brewery. I did like some of the beers they did, but not not so much the others. ⁓ but then I yeah, so so the the the founder interviewed me and we clicked straight away. So we had a very good connection and ⁓ I think that's very important. Like if you ⁓ as a head brewer you  do want to be on the same vibes of the founder like being in

Martin (09:00)
Handy.

Yeah, of course,

yeah. You you gotta share the same, you know, focus and goal for the brewery. Yeah.

Kuba (09:28)
And other relationships.

Mm. I

think so. So yeah, so so ⁓ he offer me the job and I accept it.

Martin (09:40)
Easy as that. Good connection. Do you want a job? Yes. That's good. Pretty much. And how long have you been there now?

Kuba (09:45)
Yeah. Pr pretty much, pretty much that, yeah. He he did he

he he did get me pretty drunk before offering a job as well.

Martin (09:52)
they buttered you up first and with a few beers.

A note to all founders, if you want to get a head brewer, just give them a few beers and you're you're on your way. ⁓ so how how long have you been at 3 Locks now?

Kuba (10:04)
so that's gonna be almost three years now.

Martin (10:07)
cool. So they've been there a long time. I've got to say one of your favourite one of my favourite beers from 3 Locks is the Schwarzbier It's such a beautiful beer, so balanced. Is it really? we agree on

Kuba (10:13)
It is my favourite as well. One or yeah, ⁓ that yeah, yeah.

It's it's the one I definitely ⁓ take much much pride with ⁓  most pride with in.

Martin (10:26)
Yeah, definitely.

I mean it shows as well because it's such a beautiful beer. So if anyone hasn't tried 3 locks Brewery Schwarzbier I recommend you ⁓ go over, visit them, or ⁓ buy it in a shop and yeah, try it. It's amazing.

Kuba (10:41)
Th for for for

every time I have to ⁓ cover ⁓ for the tap room and and just just work behind the bar, the sales of Schwarzbier rise ⁓ influentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I just I just love selling it. I just love talking love talking about it.

Martin (10:53)
Upselling have a Schwarzbier Have a Schwarzbier bear.

I do love an upsell.

yeah, so let's talk about, you know, for anyone who hasn't been to 3 Locks in Camden, you know, what makes it such a special place to to brew

⁓ brew beer in in you know, because you're located very close to Camden Market and right across from the river as well. it it must be like a a dream, you know, to brew beer right on the river. It's such a lovely area.

Kuba (11:23)
is very nice and any break you take you can just sit by the canal and ⁓ and enjoy everything ⁓ yeah i think one thing that being in camden market gives us is ⁓ it's a lot of tourists and tourists have a very ⁓ let's try it out let let's try something new attitude and that that allows me to ⁓ to brew

Martin (11:47)
Yeah. Definitely

Kuba (11:51)
beer styles that are not necessarily I wouldn't say ⁓ crazy inventive ⁓ unless you yeah we're talking about the the lime and mint which which went well as well but ⁓ I mean like just less known styles in UK for example like a Schwarzbier like a Hefeweizen which is ⁓ probably more known than than than Schwarzbier beer but still like not not not a lot of craft breweries brew Hefes or ⁓ I do I do like

Martin (12:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kuba (12:21)
⁓ and because we have a lot of tourists from from Europe and states as well, they know the styles a bit better. For example, like a Gose ⁓ is a style that is not necessarily that popular in UK. Although yeah, there there's there's a few breweries brewing Gose's as well, but ⁓ I think tourists from from continental would know them a bit better, especially they're ⁓ a beer tourists. ⁓

Martin (12:45)
Yeah, definitely.

Belgium, Germany, them sort of places.

Kuba (12:49)
Yeah, and ⁓ yeah it allows me to to to brew my ⁓ other favourite style gear. So ⁓ we do brew quite a lot of lager and because we supply a lot of vendors in the Camden and ⁓ that allows the us to  go to ⁓ quite a lot of lager. So yeah we can we actually have two lagers in our core range ⁓ at all times and then seasonal lagers as well.

Martin (13:12)
Yeah.

It's always a lager drinker.

You can't get away from lager drinkers, but I mean, as long as the lager's a good lager, ⁓ I love it.

Kuba (13:20)
I I I'm a vlogger drinker. I I

want to I want to the entire ⁓ I mean I'll drink old styles but I want to all the hoppy beers at the beginning of my career to just enjoy the crisp lager by the canal, right?

Martin (13:34)
Yeah, there's nothing you can't beat a crisp lager or even a saison. I do love a saison in the in the in the hot days.

Kuba (13:39)
Season is

one style I haven't brought a trilogue yet and I I need to I need to do it.

Martin (13:44)
Yeah, I'll be definitely wanting to try your Saison. ⁓ so yeah. I do like a Saison, it's very nice. ⁓ and Radlers are getting quite popular now as well in in the hot days. ⁓ a lot of Radlers in a lot of Radler beers getting produced.

⁓ so yeah we talk about Camden obviously it's got a lot of tourists ⁓ in the area. ⁓

It's got really strong identity, obviously it does attract people from all over the world. Does being based there influence you you talked about, obviously influences ⁓ lets you brew different styles of beers. ⁓ does that help with creating the atmosphere at 3 Locks and and your identity as a brewery?

Kuba (14:21)
Yeah, for sure. I mean we we ⁓ we're trying to to ⁓ brand ourselves a bit more into that ⁓ Camden market right now. So were starting to work with ⁓ it's still early stages, we started to work with a local artist, ⁓ who's ⁓ Isak Pereira Pereira, who's a Bolton artist and he designed a few ⁓ cans for us so far.

Martin (14:49)
Lovely.

Kuba (14:49)
so ⁓ and yeah we're probably gonna

design it some more. So for now it's just the seasonals and specials. ⁓ but yeah we we're looking into like a wider rebrand so we can ⁓ we're probably gonna ask him to to to ⁓ do artwork for all our core range as well. ⁓ but yeah but but but but it's also about yeah I mean Camden's very

Martin (15:11)
So that it all kind of all blends together, all looks the same.

Kuba (15:20)
live music for example is big in Camden. So yeah we  do embrace that. we do have ⁓ event space that we quite often rent to bands. Weirdly enough ⁓ a lot of bands we we work with don't ⁓ don't like organising anything over summer. ⁓ so we but yeah  we we do a lot of things ⁓ in for example for from like September to to April.

In the summer we've got buskers outside doing live music as well. So yeah, we  do want to ⁓ definitely be a part of that like Camden community. ⁓ and that yeah, that definitely builds an atmosphere in the in the tap room aswell.

Martin (15:59)
Yeah.

Awesome. ⁓ how how are your your beers selling, you know, other than just in Camden? Are you are you getting your beers across the UK and and even abroad maybe as well? How how's that going?

Kuba (16:15)
I find that exporting beer abroad became for such small brewery as us ⁓ became not very profitable and very ⁓ labour intensive. If we if we grow, we're probably gonna look into that. ⁓ we had some national presence ⁓ the through Sellar but that had to ⁓ stop after the changes with ⁓ DPD not taking

Is it DPD or who they were using not taking ⁓ steel cags anymore?

Martin (16:47)
Yeah, there was there was one or two,

wasn't there? Yeah, there was one or two that weren't doing it. But they've they've kind of reintroduced I think Sellar if you're talking about Sellar they've ⁓ introduced a a a a delivery system ⁓ that bypasses that. So I've been there.

Kuba (17:00)
Yeah, I've

I've I've seen that, but yeah, I mean that was never ⁓ like the  dispatch costs were ⁓ still pretty heavy cutting into the margins and yeah this is even more expensive. So I don't think we're looking into it as of yet, 'cause yeah,  as I said, like we we've got limited capacity to ⁓ brew at the moment. ⁓ we are ⁓ looking into growing, getting more ⁓

fermentation capacity and ⁓ maybe new premises. but for now we just need to focus on ⁓ our best markets which is London and and Camden itself. and there's a lot of like Camden is such a big market especially in the summer that there's still a lot of ⁓ a lot of avenues we can pursue there. And then ⁓ yeah we we are in London we are in a quite a few ⁓ like craft beer bars as well.

Martin (17:54)
Yeah, that's good. ⁓ would you say ⁓ what's your  what's your capacity at the moment for for brewing?

Kuba (18:01)
What do you like ⁓ in hectoliters? Yeah, so ⁓ we do have ⁓ so brew length is twenty hect. ⁓ we've got ⁓ fermentation capacity for a hundred twenty. ⁓ so in a year I think we can brew up to about three thousand hectoliters.

Martin (18:04)
Yes, yeah.

Cool. So

that's what you're looking to do, you're looking to expand how many how much you can you can brew.

Kuba (18:32)
Yeah, yeah, 'cause th there is

there's there's ⁓ demand, but ⁓ we would just need to increase our our potential capacity.

Martin (18:44)
Yeah, definitely. ⁓ looking at your your  your your range of beers that you do, you know, which is would you say are the like  the 3  beers that really capture what 3 locks is all about? Apart from obviously definitely Schwarzbier We can knock that one off the list.

Kuba (19:04)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Schwarzbier is great. ⁓

I would say our market lager, which is a ⁓ a German style Pilsner, and ⁓ that's a beer we like I think as much as I'm  ⁓ like I take pride in Schwarzbier beer, I think I think in general market lager is our best beer ⁓ and we do take a lot of pride in that as well. we do ⁓ in like

We import more malt for for the market lager from Germany for that model authentic, slightly more like nutty, ⁓ sweeter malty taste ⁓ than British malt, which which is great. ⁓ I'm not gonna ⁓ say anything about British malt, but for for a German style Pilsner I think German Malt it is a bit more suitable. Yeah. ⁓

Martin (19:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, you wanna try and stay as true to style as possible as well, with you know

Kuba (20:01)
And then obviously ⁓ I mean German hops are quite obvious, but yeah, we  don't rush it, we give it as much time as it needs to to properly condition. And I think that's  the good quality Malt and ⁓ giving enough time are the two most important factor in in in brewing a good lagger.

Martin (20:21)
Yeah, definitely. What's ⁓ been one ⁓ style of beer or one beer in particular that you've you know, it's been quite a a challenge to brew?

Kuba (20:31)
a challenge to brew. ⁓ the first batch of our ⁓ hibiscus and Rosep ⁓ Gose which is a great beer. I  loved it and  I wanted to brew it ever since I became a brewer. maybe not ever since, like about year and a half into brewing. I wanted to brew a hibiscus beer and then Rosep sort of like ⁓ joined because it it fits so well. ⁓ and we

added the ⁓ the Rosep and hibiscus straight to fermenter. ⁓ and we had a bit of a trouble actually packaging it. 'cause we had to go through ⁓ inline filter and that would clog quite often. It it was very so it it neither hibiscus or or rose petals ⁓ tend to drop ⁓ like drop out the bottom quite well so we couldn't drop it out of the tank. So yeah the the the

Martin (21:16)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kuba (21:30)
It was definitely a challenging year for us. ⁓ I'm not sure if it is the kind of challenge you were asking ⁓ about, but yeah. pack packaging was

Martin (21:32)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah, so so basically it was

it it was hard to drop em' out of solution because ⁓ see they're quite quite light, aren't they?

Kuba (21:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was hard to drop it out of the solution and

hard to to to actually get into ⁓ any packaging type.

Martin (21:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Well I've definitely heard them sort of challenges before with them styles of beers and anything that's you know, you're adding in them sort of ingredients, which is very hard to to get them to drop to the bottom of the fermenter and if you know, if they do get in.

Kuba (22:03)
Yeah. There are some good solutions

We just didn't have anything like that. there some like hop rockets ⁓ have a special ⁓ like filters inside that allow ⁓ larger things like ⁓ flower petals or herbs sometimes. So yeah, a lot of brews utilise those who just didn't have one at time. ⁓

Martin (22:11)
yes, yeah.

Yeah.

So basically a hop rocket, for anyone who doesn't know what a hop rocket is, it basically shaped like a rocket. And the beer ⁓ goes through the hop rocket, ⁓ where there's loads of, like you say, hops or petals or ingredients, herbs, etc. ⁓ and it get goes through that and then it comes out and goes back in, is that correct? So it's like a

Kuba (22:49)
⁓

yeah, it goes through and there's a filter inside so it actually keeps the it keeps whatever the the the material is and ⁓ the beer circles through it and goes back to in tank ⁓ infused with a new flavour.

Martin (23:02)
Yeah.

Yeah. So you're not losing you get you get the maximum flavour but you don't get the the sediment or the trub from the ingredients 'cause it stays in the the hop rocket. Yeah, yeah. They're awesome little things they are then.

Kuba (23:14)
Yeah, exactly.

⁓ with the

hops it's a bit different 'cause it it depends on the on of the type of rocket. it's more about recirculation and and like breaking it down 'cause a lot of hop rockets a lot of hop particulates actually are supposed to get into a tank. ⁓ but yeah, with something like like hibiscus or petals you would want them to stay in the hop rocket

Martin (23:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So when you're when you're developing a new recipe, where does you know, where do you normally start with the process? Is it, you know, do you choose do you want to ⁓ brew with a particular ingredient or a certain style of beer or like a certain flavour that you want to get out of the beer? Where where would you normally start with?

Kuba (23:58)
it all depends. Like ⁓ for for for ⁓ the the beer I just mentioned, the the Rosep Hibiscus gose ⁓ we started with with the ingredient. I really wanted to brew with hibiscus. I love hibiscus. A lot of ⁓ a lot of inspirations for like how I want to flavour my beers come from ⁓ Tea World actually, 'cause I do love my teas and ⁓ I'm actually drinking hibiscus tea right now. ⁓

Martin (24:16)
It is okay.

yeah,

I'll stick to my coffee.

Kuba (24:24)
⁓

and ⁓ rose petals are also like ⁓ often used to to to flavour black peas. ⁓

But with a lot of flavour w with a lot of ⁓ other beers it it's just gonna be mm what yeah, w what what flavour like with hoppy beers is like what what what do I want to do? Do I want to do a juicy New England IPA? Do I want to do ⁓ a beer with a specific ⁓ like mango flavour, ⁓ like hop derived mango?

notes or ⁓ very citrusy very refreshing like session IPA. ⁓ so so often I  start with like what the end result should be and then work backwards with ⁓ yeah  if if if that's the case, if I want a very refreshing dry ⁓ lager I'm obviously not gonna use ⁓ heavy adjuncts in the in the Mash tun or ⁓ a noble ⁓ I'll ⁓

Martin (25:22)
Yes. Of course.

Kuba (25:28)
To be fair, I do like to mix a a bit of like a tiny amount of noble hops in my hoppy beers, just to get this like slightly ⁓ spice ⁓ twink to it.

Martin (25:40)
where would you add them sort of hops into the process? Would it be like a late boil, aroma, hops down kind of thing?

Kuba (25:47)
Yeah, that would be that would

that that would be exactly. I I would add them ⁓ at the on the hot side ⁓ at a flameout.

Martin (25:56)
Yeah. Awesome. So ⁓ is there any any beers that taught you something as a brewer? Anything that's ⁓ you know, you didn't know and by brewing a certain beer you y you you taught yourself something new?

Kuba (26:09)
I think with Hefeweizen ⁓

I had a but that that's not necessarily something I just I just discovered by brewing something, but maybe by doing research into ⁓ into how to brew it. ⁓ with Hefeweizen I found that and and with a lot of other beers as well that ⁓ a lot of esters ⁓ like those ⁓ like fruity

like bubblegum esters are produced very early in fermentation. ⁓ and if so the temperature control in the very early stages of fermentation for for ⁓ ales probably the first twenty four hours, maybe forty six, ⁓ for lagers a bit longer, like forty eight to to even seventy two hours, ⁓ are being created ⁓ so so the temperature control in those first stages is the most important.

And then can sort of let it go ⁓ to to to speed up the the the rest of the process. ⁓ and I find out that with Hefeweizen if wanna ⁓ avoid the bubblegummy, you need to actually cast out very like you need to cast out quite low and then just allow it to raise ⁓ at later stages.

Martin (27:28)
Yeah.

Kuba (27:31)
Get the the the banana out

Martin (27:33)
So it's like a natural rise in in temperature during fermentation. Rather than controlling it. Yeah. ⁓ interesting. I'll take note if I ever decide to brew a Hefeweizen beer.

Kuba (27:35)
Mm-hmm. Rather yeah, yeah. Rather than just just just just discuss the out.

Please do

yeah, it's there just not enough Hefeweizens I think, ⁓ out there.

Martin (27:50)
Yeah.

So looking looking at the the wider beer scene, what styles excite you the most at the moment?

Kuba (27:56)
as I said, like in this age of my this this this this point of my craft beer ⁓ journey, I do love a very good like crisp beer, like a lager. A saison would work as well. maybe maybe ⁓ some people describe it as

Hop fatigue when it's just like a lot of those like hop heavy beers don't excite me as as much as they used to. They they used to excite me very much and now it's just ⁓ I don't know. I think like the the the industry ⁓ sort of turned into everyone needs to brew those styles over and over again under different brands,  di yeah, just just just with small changes and like release just something new every time but it's not really new. And ⁓ yeah, and I'm

Martin (28:25)
Same, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

This is too much, isn't it? It's just like you've released like ten beers

a week and it's just like slow down.

Kuba (28:48)
I'm very

excited about ⁓ British brewers and and ⁓ brewers in general, like craft brewers brewing ⁓ more traditional ⁓ styles. Not necessarily like ⁓ cask style like or beers that would normally be in casks but putting them in different formats as well. But also like ⁓ brewing styles like more continental styles, for example, like I mean th in the last like five years there's so many like great

Martin (28:59)
Yes.

Yeah.

Kuba (29:18)
lagers being brewed by craft beer, which historically before that period of time, ⁓ was was treated very ⁓ like an afterthought. so brewery has to have a lager but it doesn't need to be necessarily ⁓ something that yeah it's just just brewed whatever quick lager we can get out and ⁓ a lot of it was like steam lagers And now yeah I feel like ⁓ the industry realised that yeah there's the there's definitely demand for lager

Martin (29:39)
Yeah.

Kuba (29:48)
A well crafted lager ⁓

Martin (29:48)
Yeah, definitely. Is a

lot of a lot of breweries are brewing lagers now. ⁓ but brewing good lagers as well. Not you know, not just brewing the lager because they they need to have it in their portfolio. Just brewing very well.

Kuba (29:55)
Yeah yeah yeah that that's what I mean. Like yeah there there's there's so many And the L C beer

L C B F last year I had so many good Lagers And and and so and and breweries like special like craft breweries specialising in Lagers is is great as well. So we finally have

Martin (30:02)
Yeah.

Kuba (30:10)
Like we we we don't leave that ⁓ lager market to ⁓ just a bit big multinationals anymore. But yeah, like some smaller size, like I do love ⁓ I never actually brewed it for 3 Locks yet. I do intend to, but like a Rotbier beer, a let ⁓ red lager or ⁓ a Vienna lager, which you do actually brew Ice Pier, yep.

Martin (30:17)
Yeah.

Okay. That's interesting. Yeah, there's not many Vienna don't see many

of Vienna Lagos, do you? I've I've not I don't really come across it that much.

Kuba (30:39)
We we we we

brew one every autumn under the brand of ⁓ Autumn Lager.

Martin (30:44)
okay. So you you it's a seasonal seasonal beer for you to brew. Yeah. So ⁓ yeah, from a a brewer's perspective, the industry has changed quite a lot over the last few years. You know, what what changes stood out for you the most?

Kuba (30:47)
Yeah, it is seasonal for us yeah

I mean there's definitely less ⁓ breweries than there used to be before COVID. ⁓ I think some of it

Martin (31:04)
Definitely, definitely that, yeah.

Kuba (31:10)
Some of it is very unfortunate, some of it it's probably not gonna I'm not gonna get a lot of sympathy for saying that, but some of it was needed. There was a lot of like brewers not really focusing that much of of of business development and like making the best beer possible, ⁓ but just writing the  ⁓ wave of ⁓ just just how much

support for craft beer was a like were at the time. ⁓ But with other changes, as I said, like yeah, just just just ⁓ a slight shift like lager not being ⁓ perceived as something ⁓ negative by by craft beer brewers ⁓ it's a is a great shift.  like I  from like technical standpoint I've noticed that the quality of the equipment used by brewers improved dramatically like

Martin (32:08)
Yeah. It's even at home brewing scale as well, the the the equipment is just amazing these days.

Kuba (32:09)
So so so yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

But I don't just mean there is better equipment available, but what what I mean is like brewers are willing to invest more in in better quality equipment.

Martin (32:25)
Yes, yeah, for sure. Like

Kuba (32:26)
⁓ and

it's harder to compete without having a decent equipment anymore.

Martin (32:31)
Yeah, there's a lot of you know, like CO2 capture units that ⁓ at breweries are starting to get in. they're trying to save as much money as possible, you know. ⁓ even with heat.

Kuba (32:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like just just optimising the

the wastage and the cost when they could and that's a good thing because as I said, like when the craft beer was when the life in the craft beer was good, a lot of people were ⁓ not optimising properly and ⁓ it's not necessarily something that that

Martin (32:47)
Yes.

Kuba (33:07)
affects the quality of beer. It it's just yeah, that the technical side of things w w wasn't developed at the same level as as ⁓ maybe marketing and recipe making.

Martin (33:19)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I make you right there, definitely. Yeah. You need to optimise your production and costs ⁓ in-house before you start focusing on you know the marketing. ⁓ you know, save costs where you can in in the brew house for sure.

Kuba (33:30)
Yeah, for sure.

Martin (33:36)
What do think today's beer drinkers are are looking for that might be different from, you know, five or ten years ago? A lot of people are are jumping on you know alcohol free beers that now. That seems to be the b the biggest rise ⁓ in the industry at the moment and for for styles of beer. ⁓ so

Kuba (33:55)
Yeah, I think ⁓ COVID get  everyone a bit bit of like a health scare. So and also I think just the the ⁓ the generation shift ⁓ means people want to drink less alcohol, so alcohol free is definitely on the rise. ⁓ low calorie beers as well, I feel like on the rise. ⁓ so generally like ⁓ people are a bit more ⁓

self-conscious about ⁓ their their own health. which again I do welcome it. Like I do not think that ⁓ promoting necessarily like heavily excessive drinking is  good for an industry.

Martin (34:44)
Yeah. Yeah, there's a big

drop now, isn't there? There used to be a lot of double IPAs, eight percent double IPAs, you know, going back a few three or four years ago.

Kuba (34:51)
Yeah. I do I do

like I do like the change that government meant to I mean ⁓ don't get me wrong, there's just a lot of things they did wrong with that duty reform. but the fact that the the fact that they raised the low ABV threshold from two point eight to three point four percent ⁓ I think is a very good change and ⁓ made ⁓ made a lot of like lower ABV beers available for for for the public.

Martin (35:20)
Yeah, and a lot breweries probably started brewing more sessionable ⁓ ABV beers just because it's cheaper to produce, but also they don't really have to cut much back on on ingredients. that's the that's the main one, isn't it? Like that's not it's not a scrimp and save on ingredients on a on a decent session f

Kuba (35:41)
Yeah, 'cause I think

it's easier to drink to brew ⁓ a nice ⁓ session beer at three point four percent than this ⁓ at two point eight. I think two point eight it was ⁓ it was hard to make the beer not taste a bit like worty and ⁓ just just water down, yeah. I'm not saying I'm not saying impossible yeah harder.

Martin (36:00)
Finn. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Is it

Yeah. Have you ever used a product from WHC lab called Bodybuilder in your in your beer to give it a bit more No? ⁓

Kuba (36:11)
I have not. I'd I've

never I've never heard of it before, so yeah, I might I might look into it.

Martin (36:17)
Check it out. I've I'm gonna I've used it on one of my brews at Mash Paddle, ⁓ just to see what it does. So I've started off with, you know, just a small amount, just to see what it does to you know, a normal beer that you're not heavily dry hopping or heavily putting loads of oats and wheat in it to get that, you know, that big body mouthfeel.

Kuba (36:34)
⁓

did you find?

Martin (36:36)
yet to find out. I'll update you ⁓ to see how it is. Yeah. I definitely will. But yeah, give it give it a let check it out. and yeah, because I spoke to Paul Malcolm from WHC and and he introduced me to that and ⁓ yeah, he told me about bodybuilder. ⁓ so yeah, give it a go. ⁓ let me know what you find as well, your results. is there any

Kuba (36:41)
Yeah, please do.

Martin (37:02)
breweries or a brewer in particular that you you really admire for their work.

Kuba (37:06)
I'll go with Breweries rather than

than brewers I don't want to let to to make anyone feel left out but I do love what ⁓ burning sky was doing for like such a long time great beers ⁓ I do really admire siren brewing ⁓ on the like not not not just the the quality of the beers but the the the whole business is great ⁓

Martin (37:16)
Of course.

Yeah.

Yeah, the whole model

was great, yeah. They're definitely doing well.

Kuba (37:39)
And ⁓ I used to love Magic Rock Brewing before they ⁓ sold into ⁓ the ⁓ the time was was ⁓  right? And then Keystone. But yeah, I used to love their beers when I was when ⁓ like 2018

Martin (37:47)
Yeah.

Kuba (38:04)
they were doing very nice things with with their sour program and ⁓ there were ⁓ the saucery the the gluten free session IPA was I think 'cause I had actually a few celiac friends ⁓ who couldn't drink anything ⁓ else. So yeah, ⁓ this is like always my ⁓ fridge filler for like when I knew they they were coming over. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Martin (38:28)
Yeah. When you had friends over.

So ⁓ if you could work with any brewery in the world and invite them down to for collaboration with with you at 3 Locks, who would it be?

Kuba (38:41)
New Belgian brewery in States, ⁓ Brooklyn brewery. ⁓ yeah, they they they have ⁓ like I once seen their they they have such an I'm not that ⁓ it's not because so with Brooklyn is ⁓ that they have amazing barrel aging project and I've never ⁓ never really ⁓ been that

Martin (38:46)
Brooklyn, yeah.

Kuba (39:11)
into barrel aging, but I would I would really love to learn ⁓ about barrel aging a bit more. And I I think that there would be they'd be a perfect brewery to to collaborate on the on on on that, I think. Although yeah that they're obviously massive.

Martin (39:15)
Yeah, same here.

What would you

What sort of

barrel aged beer would you like to do?

Kuba (39:28)
I don't know, I maybe Barrel Aged Schwarzbier would be would be a nice

Martin (39:32)
What would

you what would you infuse it with?

Kuba (39:35)
probably probably just just just ⁓

I would just like to see how how it would not sure, in a in like a whiskey barrel maybe?

Martin (39:45)
Yeah. A Bourbon, Barrel Aged Bourbon. Yeah. Yeah. Not too much though. ⁓ it would not too much. Just little just a little bit, not too much in there. 'Cause yeah, you don't wanna let's not kill the Schwarzbier with that whiskey flavour. Unless you're gonna make a an Imperial Schwarzbier and ⁓ then it it might work.

Kuba (39:47)
Yeah. Yeah.  yeah. No, no, not too much yeah, yeah. It's just just just yeah. Yeah. 

Ha ha.

Martin (40:07)
So we we're coming on to the final question, you know, we're gonna what looking ahead at 3 Locks, what what excites you the most about your future  projects that you've got coming up? ⁓ I know you mentioned about wanting to expand your fermentation capacity. ⁓ but what else  excites you about 3 Locks Brewing for the future?

Kuba (40:27)
Yeah, definitely ⁓

from from marketing standpoint the the rebrand ⁓ I've seen some that and yeah this this will look really great and just just refresh the brand a bit ⁓

Martin (40:51)
When's the launch for your rebrand? Have you got a date yet or no? Couple of months.

Kuba (40:54)
I I don't have a date. I would I would love to give you a date, but no. ⁓ our

our so in August we're gonna have our fourth birthday of 3 Locks So ⁓ that's ⁓ very exciting as well. ⁓ and sorry, in August. Yeah. ⁓ we're gonna be four, yeah.

Martin (41:12)
Yep, and what month is that? In August. So it you'll be four in August.

Awesome, yeah.

Kuba (41:20)
And ⁓

yeah, opening ⁓ a kitchen for the for the tap room. ⁓ but again, no date yet. But yeah, that those are the projects I'm working on. And there's ⁓ a few ⁓ seasonals ⁓ that we will be releasing. I'm always looking forward to the Vienna Lager Like every year I'm like just the closest it gets to like September when we release it. I'm like mm, I really want it. ⁓ and maybe like a s small ⁓

Martin (41:29)
They were on the paperwork in the

Yeah.

Kuba (41:49)
fest beer this year. So yeah, we will see how it's gonna go.

Martin (41:54)
Awesome. Great. ⁓ anything you'd like to to say to our listeners? ⁓ you know, why they why should they come and visit 3 Locks Brewery in Camden Yeah.

Kuba (42:05)
I mean

first of all they should visit to to to Taste the Schwarzbier ⁓ by the lovely ⁓ Regents Canal ⁓ with great view and ⁓ if they come over the weekend ⁓ with live music around and ⁓ just generally great atmosphere and ⁓ yeah all the other beers as well. Like we we do brew ⁓ pretty decent beers. Not the brewery, just just our beers are also pretty decent.

Martin (42:10)
Of course

Yeah.

I've enjoyed pretty much all of your beer styles that you do. ⁓ when I came and visited earlier.

Kuba (42:40)
Wh which one

Martin (42:41)
⁓ and I liked your IPA as well, your session. Session beer was very nice and the lager was good. ⁓ but it's yeah, it's a very good range of beer styles to try at ⁓ 3 Locks So I'd recommend everyone to go down and have a look. check out the website and description.

be in the description below so yeah have a look at the website have a look at their beers and ⁓ yeah have a taste ⁓ but yeah ⁓ kuba it's been an absolutely amazing talking to you ⁓ and i'll be paying you a visit very soon ⁓ and

Kuba (43:11)
It was it was great talking

to you as well and yeah, obviously ⁓ come over, let me know and ⁓ I can arrange something nice.

Martin (43:18)
Awesome. I'll definitely be up for that. yeah, thank you very much for coming on the show. ⁓ and yeah, to everyone listening back at home, we'll catch you in a couple of weeks' time again. So yeah, ⁓ it's from me, it's goodbye, and from Kuba, it's bye from him aswell well. Cheers. Thank you, thanks, Kuba, bye.

Kuba (43:31)
Cool. Bye bye. Thank you, Martin. Bye.