Two Rising Stars of UK Brewing

Martin (00:01)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Beer Rep Chats with. And today I'm delighted to be joined by not one but two amazing brewers. Sophie from Buxton and Natalya from State of Kind. lovely to have you both on. Thank you for coming on the show.

Natalya Brown (00:16)
Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Sophie Ashdown (00:17)
Thank You

Martin (00:18)
It's a pleasure to have you on. I've been really looking forward to doing this episode. so if we could just start by, you know, if you can tell us a bit about yourselves and how you got into brewing. whichever one of you wants to start first Yeah. Nat you wanna you you wanna start first, Nat? Yeah.

Natalya Brown (00:31)
Yeah, alright. Yeah, I'm Natalya Brown,

obviously from State of Kind Brew Co. I've been with the brewery for I think it's coming up to my fifth year next year. Question mark. I lose track very easily with that.

I'm the head brewer, I do everything from start to finish, including serving beer, line cleaning, creating the beer, recipes, the whole hog.

Martin (00:59)
Yeah. And and

Sophie?

Sophie Ashdown (01:01)
Yeah, I'm Sophie. I work at Buxton Brewery and I'm one of the senior brewers here. So not quite as intense as Nat I do a bit of recipe development and then help with the team, brew the beers and then everything from kind of style of brewing to packaging. And then making sure

Martin (01:23)
Awesome.

Sophie Ashdown (01:23)
beer is good and tap house when I go for my own drink. Yeah.

Martin (01:26)
Plenty of tasting.

Awesome. So we'll we'll start off with you, Sophie. You know, you started working at Buxton Tap House before you moved into the brewing part. When when did you realise you wanted to, you know, start make the beer rather than drink it or serve it?

Sophie Ashdown (01:44)
So it all kind of happened as a bit of a happy accident. obviously I started working, I've been working for the company for nearly seven years now. Worked at the Tap House in my second year of uni. And then obviously Covid happened and that kind of forced me to move up here to help out with just packaging boxes for

the web shop and stuff. That slowly then just progressed over time and got more onto the floor.

learnt how to run the canning line. And then part of me was just like, I'm quite interested in brewing. I kind of want

to give it a go, see what it's

Natalya Brown (02:22)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (02:24)
like. I like learning

Martin (02:25)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (02:25)
new things, something a bit different. It's definitely not what I learned at uni, so completely different career change for me.

Martin (02:33)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (02:34)
And then I just kind of really enjoyed making beer and making beer for people.

having people to enjoy beer, and feeling proud of myself on something that loads of people could come together.

Martin (02:49)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (02:50)
And it just, yeah, was nothing, it wasn't on my cards at all to be doing, but I have just fallen in love with it, so.

Martin (02:59)
That's that's what happens, isn't it? You and you get you get

Sophie Ashdown (03:01)
Yeah.

Martin (03:01)
that bug, I suppose. And that was that's it. It took off from there. so obviously, your Natalya, your way into Brewing was a bit slightly a bit different. You know, what was your your route into Brewing and what was the particular moment that you realised, yeah, I really wanna do this?

Natalya Brown (03:19)
well previously my dad did homebrew, so obviously I got to experience all the mishaps with homebrewing, including a pineapple pale that he tried to make that turned out more of a pineapple bitter. It wasn't the greatest. So

Martin (03:31)
Okay.

Natalya Brown (03:34)
but I got into kind of craft beer and all that through working bars. I used to work Wigan Central, where Jo, who now owns a place, she taught me a lot of things. she just taught me

like different styles, tasting, notes, everything that you needed to know.

I did need a few more hours, so I did go to State of Kind, which my dad had previously been drinking at was like, you know, my mum and dad would go in, why don't you try and get a job there? So I was able to get I was there. And just one after another it just kinda fell into my lap that they offered me an apprenticeship, which I was extremely excited for. At the time I dropped out to uni for doing game design. So

Obviously, going from a very creative media into very hard labour was

completely different. and I'd say that I'd say my first brew day, I was just fell in love with it. It was one of those that

you just learn so much on the spot and it just felt good. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (04:39)
Okay.

Martin (04:37)
Yeah. Even after digging out all the spent grains, you still loved it.

Natalya Brown (04:42)
It was my favourite job. It was during winter, well, autumn winter, so digging it out, it was dead warm and I was like, this is fantastic. Come summer, yeah, no, it wasn't the same reaction.

Martin (04:47)
Yeah.

Did you do the smiley face in the door after you open up before you get the spent grains out? Did you do that? everyone

Natalya Brown (04:57)
Yeah.

Martin (04:58)
does the little dots and the smiley face, don't they Yeah. Did you do it as well?

Natalya Brown (05:01)
Yeah. I still do. It's just fun to do.

Sophie Ashdown (05:03)
I have a habit for that. Yeah. And then punch

it after.

Martin (05:09)
Stick a

stick a stick a a carrot in for Christmas and and make it a snowman.

Natalya Brown (05:12)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (05:12)
Good.

Martin (05:15)
So obviously you both ended up progressing into your brewing roles. You know, what surprised you most when you first started working in the breweries?

Sophie Ashdown (05:23)
My

biggest surprise was when I first started brewing or getting into it, I didn't realise that International Women's Collaboration Brew Day was a thing and that there was a lot of stuff around women in the brewing industry as well as the industry as a whole. So that kind of opened my eyes up a lot to women in brewing and what was going on and what's happening.

I was surprised by obviously it being a male, very male dominated area. So that kind of opened my eyes up to all the things I've been doing recently and for the last couple of years and stuff. And also meeting new women, meeting new people and getting to go to new things and meet people in beer. And it's been like really eye opening about what's kind of going on in the industry.

Martin (06:16)
Yeah. Awesome.

How about you, Nat?

Natalya Brown (06:20)
for me, I'd say I think there was a lot of it. obviously going from homebrew into the big stuff. There was a lot of bad habits that I didn't know I had that I

Martin (06:30)
Okay.

Natalya Brown (06:31)
had to quickly get out of my system.

Martin (06:33)
Shall shall we name a few maybe? What sort of bad habits? This is interesting.

Natalya Brown (06:41)
I'd say sometimes it's one of those issues of timekeeping is that with homebrew you kinda go, Yeah, I'll leave it

Martin (06:47)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (06:47)
a little bit longer, it's fine.

Martin (06:49)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (06:50)
obviously with the the big kits is no. Once a time was off, you want to get it straight into the next thing, get it moving. I'd say also how much science is into it as well. I didn't really know much about it. Obviously, you know, your basic maths and stuff like that to work out your grains and water. But then getting into proper water chemistry, your yeast, I

it just went over my head and

Just one after another I've learnt to love the yeast side, the maths side

not so much, but no

Martin (07:22)
No one likes maths. Nobody likes maths. Yeah. So

obviously you you've both come through an apprenticeship programme, is that correct? Yep.

Sophie Ashdown (07:32)
Yeah.

Martin (07:34)
what what did you learn through the process that you might not have learned just by, you know, just working on a job? how did that kind of help you both?

Sophie Ashdown (07:40)
Mine was more like when I first started, I've been brewing for I think two years previously before the apprenticeship. So I knew how the kit ran and I knew how, I just knew how to brew. I knew how to do things. And then

Martin (07:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (07:57)
through the apprenticeship and after the apprenticeship, it was more like why I'm doing all these things and why that works in a certain way on the brew kit, which then turned into.

understanding the brew kit a lot more and how to make that more effective and then why I do the things that I do now. So that's now in my head, which has made brewing a lot more easier and day-to-day kind of job a lot easier because I know why. I'm not just putting something in a tank for the sake of putting something in the tank. I'm doing it for a reason now. I know why. So yeah.

Martin (08:28)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's

not like just why am I adding these hops or why am I adding this amount of hops at this stage and this time and and you actually know the why and the reasoning behind

Sophie Ashdown (08:37)
Yeah, like,

Martin (08:39)
it.

Sophie Ashdown (08:40)
yeah, what's the difference between active firm hops and just normal dry hopping? Like, why am

Natalya Brown (08:44)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (08:45)
I putting this in the next day? That's not right.

Martin (08:47)
Yeah. How about yourself, Nat?

Natalya Brown (08:47)
Right.

I have to agree with Sophie with that. I'd also put as well as the kind of the social aspect of it is getting introduced to other breweries. I had so many amazing people in my course that I'm still in touch with. you know, random little questions of hey, where do I find this is really nice to have those people to kind of rely on.

I'd also say like the talks that we have, lots of time would go on as brewers do, you go out drinking with them, especially after doing

all this writing, all this kind of explanations to each other that we go out and

be like, I just don't understand how to do this one thing that on theory it sounds really easy and they go, actually no, you just gotta do it this way instead.

Martin (09:34)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (09:35)
for that, I I absolutely appreciate and I still love to this day that I'm able to just ask these random, silly questions to them and they know how to respond. it also helps way with getting collab sorted.

Obviously, having those people there, I've been able to do a few different small kind of collabs, including one with Hadrian Border, the girl on that course, she we both decided to do kind of a reverse little thing. They're more traditional, were modern. So when I went to them, they did a cask beer for us, and then they came to us and we did a gose which I was extremely excited for, and it tasted

Martin (10:11)
Yeah. Awesome.

Natalya Brown (10:13)
wonderful.

Martin (10:15)
Brilliant. That's all that matters, it tastes amazing.

Yeah, definitely.

Natalya Brown (10:18)
Yeah.

Martin (10:21)
So obviously you N

Natalya, you be you became head brewer at State of Kind and how has your job changed since you took on that, you know, responsibility, that role?

Natalya Brown (10:34)
it's a bit of a weird one. At first I didn't think

it would change going from an apprentice into a head brewer. I didn't realise how much there was in aspect. but

Martin (10:44)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (10:45)
now that I've taken up that role and it's come up to a year, I've realised how much I've improved. obviously I'm being very critical of myself when I'm trying my own beers. I'm going, this isn't quite right. I don't like that.

there's been a lot of recipe development going on and you know, trying to practice as best

as possible what I'm doing in a small time frame. obviously I've gotta try and make sure I'm brewing twice a week kind of situation just to make sure there's not too much on my own shoulders.

Martin (11:18)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (11:19)
then obviously trying to make sure I've got time for canning, kegging, cleaning.

And then also making sure

bar staff are all good, they're all happy. There's a lot. Yeah. Gladly I'm happy that I don't have to do that side. That's up to my boss for the sales. But for myself, it's just making sure everything's going at my own pace, that I'm not pushing myself too much. there is quite a bit of pressure sometimes about it. Obviously, I do help on the bar, so every so often you do get that kind of person who comes in.

Martin (11:29)
Plenty of beer to sew.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Natalya Brown (11:53)
Who don't

who doesn't know who you are and then they'll be like, I'm I'm not a big fan of that there and you know, it it it does knock you down, but I think you need it sometimes. Yeah. It's yeah.

Martin (11:58)
Yeah. you can't you can't please everybody, can you? There's always gonna be some person that's I'm not too sure, but but you

I find as well that I think every every brewer I've met, they're always super critical of their beers, of their brews. No matter it could be, you

Natalya Brown (12:10)
Yeah.

Martin (12:13)
know, win multiple gold awards and they're still be super critical of it. It's just you know, it's just I think

Natalya Brown (12:17)
Yeah.

Martin (12:18)
every brewer I've met is a perfectionist and it and rightly so as well, 'cause it's a it's a trade, it's an art, isn't it?

Natalya Brown (12:22)
Yeah, I could think that one

of my beers are fantastic and somebody can go, No it's not and I'll be like, Okay, yeah, no. I need to share up this bit. Yeah. yeah, they're

Martin (12:27)
Yeah. You should be very proud of all your everyone should be proud of every single beer because I've I do a little bit

Sophie Ashdown (12:27)
No!

Martin (12:34)
of home brewing and it's nowhere near as good as any I've tasted professionally. So yeah, be super proud. Exactly, yeah, you got yeah, exactly. And s and some babies need to mature as well, so So Sophie you you also progressed into

Natalya Brown (12:39)
Yeah, they're like little babies, that's what it is. You take care of watch grow.

Sophie Ashdown (12:46)
Okay.

Martin (12:51)
your senior brewery at Buxton. What was a what does a typical working day look like for you now?

Sophie Ashdown (12:58)
So I've got a lot more responsibility on obviously helping with procedures as well, a lot more now making sure that we're putting people through training correctly and everyone is following obviously the same procedures and making it kind of easy enough for new people to understand the kit and understand what's going on all the time as well as like helping managing the team between the head lead brewer and

the packaging lead as well. So just making sure everyone kind of knows what they're up to and how things are done. And again, so at moment we're training one of people downstairs called Ben and he's been on packaging for quite a while. And he's kind of in the same boots that I was in that he was interested in brewing and we're finally getting him on the brew kit and to get someone else to help us brew as well because there's only two brewers here.

So when the day is busy, there's a lot to do between the two of you. So it's nice to have a third person there as well.

Martin (14:02)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (14:03)
So teaching him how to brew, but also teaching him all the cellaring bits as well. And just kind of making sure that he's doing exactly what we're doing as well. yeah, just getting procedures paperwork. Yeah.

Martin (14:12)
Yeah. So your all signing off the same hymn sheet.

Yeah. awesome. so we do have a listener question and it's actually from another fellow podcaster, Paul from Beer Prime. If everyone doesn't know about Beer Prime, go and check it out. he's a lovely guy and podcast is amazing. He's one of the originals, obviously. But so he was asking what your favourite part of the brew day is and why. Should we start off with Sophie, you wanna start?

Sophie Ashdown (14:41)
don't know what my favourite part of the brew day is, you know. That's kind of a tricky question.

I mean, really... Yeah, making smiling faces is great.

Martin (14:48)
Is it making smiley faces into the spent grains, like we were speaking about earlier?

Natalya Brown (14:51)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (14:57)
I think my favourite part of the brew day is when you either go over the volume that you meant to have on your recipe, but also it's bang on your original gravity, like...

Martin (15:10)
Yes.

Sophie Ashdown (15:10)
absolutely spot on and like you just nailed it first time. Yeah, I love that. And I also kind of like,

Martin (15:14)
You just do a little sing and dance say, Yeah.

Natalya Brown (15:17)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (15:19)
like mini competition with myself is like, how quick can I mash out before I have to put in the second turn. So

Martin (15:26)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (15:26)
if I can get that second turn in before 10, then I'm dead happy with myself because it means then the late Brewer is finishing even earlier.

Martin (15:36)
Yes. So

that's your target. To get to get the second turn in the mash by ten o'clock. And that that's

Sophie Ashdown (15:43)
Yeah.

Martin (15:44)
that's your favourite part of the brew, day is doing that, hitting that. Brilliant. How about yourself, Natalya?

Natalya Brown (15:48)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (15:48)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (15:52)
I'd say the the morning of like the start of the brew day is my favourite 'cause it's just sets the pace and the tone for the day. It's one of

those I'll spend like a good twenty, thirty minutes choosing my playlist for the day. usually heavy metal, which my boss hates, especially when it's, you know, six in the morning. I've got to wake up somehow. but it just kind of no, I love it. It's

Martin (16:08)
Yeah, that's a bit too much for me as well. It's normally what I play at the end of the night to get rid of the customers, you know.

Natalya Brown (16:17)
one of those. Just get myself right like hyped up.

getting that energy going.

Martin (16:21)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (16:22)
and just one of those, I have a rule in the brewery that nobody says, it's going very well today, isn't it? I have that rule

Martin (16:28)
Yeah, it don't jinx it.

Natalya Brown (16:29)
taken off until that beer is in the tank. I'm not

Martin (16:32)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (16:33)
letting anything ruin that day. but yeah, the morning of just getting myself prepped, ready, you know, double

checking that I've got all my stuff ready. I've not messed

up anywhere. Sometimes I do the silly thing of I've added an extra bag or I might have forgotten a bag.

You know, it goes through my head like a nice little routine, gets me sorted, gets me set.

Martin (16:54)
Awesome. Any coffee involved as well? It's always coffee. Everyone forgets coffee coffee's like you know, you need a coffee. You need a coffee in the morning, a hundred percent. Yes.

Natalya Brown (16:56)
Yeah, a lot of coffee. Yeah. A bit of sugar, a bit of milk, sorted, maybe three,

four cups maybe.

Martin (17:10)
Lots of fizzy drinks and maybe a can of Red Bull

in between, halfway what would you say

like both of yours biggest learning curves since you started brewing? What was the you know, the biggest thing that you kind of learned professionally?

Natalya Brown (17:22)
That's a bit of a hard question.

Sophie Ashdown (17:24)
Yeah.

I think for me it was more of a, like it's all well and good brewing beer. Beer is what the customers want. And like the branding and the, like you can make any beer that you want it, really,

but you've got to make sure that it sells. So

Martin (17:45)
Yeah, of course.

Sophie Ashdown (17:46)
doing collabed and like the International Women's Day stuff as well is like, I could come up with a really crazy beer.

but I've got to be conscious of what does the consumer want? What does the consumer want? What do we as a brewery want as well? What's also gonna sell? Because there's been beers in the past where we've done like a grisette Didn't really sell that well. It was a great beer, but just no one got it.

Martin (18:13)
What kind of style of beer

is that? I don't think I've ever heard of a grisette

Sophie Ashdown (18:16)
It's a bit like a baby saison kind of type

Martin (18:18)
okay, yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (18:19)
beer, like flowery, floral,

Martin (18:21)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (18:22)
little bit like that. Yeah, it's a great type of beer.

Martin (18:24)
Sounds up my alley. I would have I would have bought it. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (18:28)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (18:30)
But it was just so, I think, niche. If you had a bunch of brewers and people really into beer in a room, great. That would fly out. But

Martin (18:37)
It it would fly out, yeah. It'd be gone, yeah.

Natalya Brown (18:37)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (18:40)
obviously, your pubs are in town and people are either there

to just have a drink and to enjoy being social. And some people are there just to drink your beer and to go to a tap room. So you've got to please those two crowds.

Which has been fun though, because then you look at artwork as well for beers and what's going to attract people to want to get that beer as well. And then it goes with that whole thing of like, you hope that people enjoy that beer and it makes you feel good in yourself.

knowing that someone's

enjoyed it and people are getting together to go, we'll go to Buxton Brewery Tap Room and we'll get our favourite pints together and have a chat. And that's kind of this great feeling. So yeah.

Martin (19:24)
Yeah. Nat for you?

Natalya Brown (19:28)
still find it a very difficult question trying to think about it. I feel like it's one of those every day is a learning day kind of situation. So I've been in plenty of situations where it's been that weird, I don't know what I'm doing. Let's kind of figure this out. I'd say with the brew kit, our brew kit, obviously not everything's perfect, is trying to find ways to make my days shorter instead of having, you know, some days it can be eight hours if I'm lucky, some days it can be twelve, which is

quite straighters. Yeah.

Martin (19:59)
Not so lucky.

Natalya Brown (20:02)
So it's finding those like little tweaks that you can play around with on the brew kit. has always been a big learning curve. I'm still I love the kit to pieces. I know it mostly well, but every so often

it does surprise me with another issue that pops up and I'm like, I didn't know it could do this. Yeah. Yeah,

Sophie Ashdown (20:18)
Yeah.

Martin (20:20)
Are you evolving? Or not evolving, depending on the situation.

Natalya Brown (20:26)
it's

A weird one to play around with and just trying to test out different things

Sophie Ashdown (20:33)
you

Natalya Brown (20:33)
to make it work, you know, like different temperatures, what's gonna work with different style of beers. Obviously, when you get into your stouts and your DIPA's they're getting a lot more thicker. What can I do to make it go through the pipes easily and through the pumps without any issues? Obviously, having a stuck mash

is the worst possible thing that could happen. How do I prevent that from happening?

Martin (20:55)
Yeah. Yeah,

Natalya Brown (20:58)
Yeah.

Martin (20:57)
exactly that, yeah. So obviously

we

touched a little bit on, you know, creating recipes that Sophie just said about you know, making the the correct styles of beer that the consumers are gonna wanna drink. So

how much freedom do you kind of have to experiment with different styles and and different recipes? Is it

a case of kind of like come up with an idea or you do have to convince the brewery that it's gonna sell? Yeah, or do you have to work to like a particular brief and

And no freedom. How's it go? How does it all work out?

Natalya Brown (21:30)
For me it is more of the pales and IPAs, the boss just leaves me be. I'll just go, hey, I really want to use this brand new hop. Here's why we think we should use it. And he'll just go, Yeah, sure, okay. Other times when it's more weirder stuff, that's where it takes a bit convincing. I love my West Coast. so this year

has been very much

Please, boss, can we do a West Coast? Can we do a West Coast? He finally went for it and we've done two this year and they've sold spectacularly. I'm really proud of them. w yeah.

Martin (22:03)
That's amazing as well, like 'cause you know you've been pushing to

do it and then you actually make two and they sell really well and it must be a great feeling to actually or relief a bit of relief as well that they've actually sold well. But brilliant.

Natalya Brown (22:12)
It is. It feels great. Yeah, especially

knowing on bar sides that usually bars don't really want a West Coast. They don't I'm not too sure what it is about and that bars don't want. But

it makes me really happy knowing that on our own bars they're selling extremely well. People want it, people go, have you still got it on? Yeah, we're the last keg. And they Can you please make it again? It's such a great feeling.

I'd say that

also with like smoothie sours and stouts, that's the hardest to try and convince the boss to do. obviously they're expensive and they take a lot of time

and effort to make sure they don't mess up.

like flavorings, my boss isn't a big fan of fruit in stouts, but I'm a huge fan of sweet, fruity stouts. So it's that back and forth battle of please let me do this. No, I don't like

it. Okay, but I didn't do something like that.

Eventually convince him and I'm happy as days.

Martin (23:12)
it as long as you get there in the end and convince them that's that's the main one, isn't it?

Natalya Brown (23:15)
Yeah, some ideas he's

instantly said no. last year I wanted to do a smoothie stout and put brownie batter in it. I have to admit that was

a very silly idea and I'm glad that my boss stopped me before it got too complicated. It was a lot of working out

Martin (23:29)
Ha ha ha.

Natalya Brown (23:30)
how much brownie batter I needed and it was not looking good.

Martin (23:32)
Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Okay.

And how about you, Sophie?

Sophie Ashdown (23:41)
So sometimes I get given a bit of a spec of like for the coming year, especially for like some supermarket kind of stuff and what they're going to be after. So

at the moment, one of the ones that I've got is just like a hazy New England IPA and making it affordable as well and easy to do every single time to make everything consistent. So sometimes I get given that kind of spec already and then

For some beers, I get told we want a Stout or a New England IPA, and I've got a little bit more leeway because it's going to be a seasonal beer. So can kind of have a bit more of a play with it and put

some funky stuff in, some hops that I've wanted to try, or the women in beer collab that I've recently done for the festival this week. I kind of came up with a recipe all by myself.

It makes me sound like a big girl. came up with

Martin (24:40)
Yay.

Sophie Ashdown (24:48)
a recipe and I wanted to do something a bit different to what we normally do apart from, obviously, we've done smoothie sours this year and we did really sweet, impy pancakes, stacky stouts last year.

As a brand as well, there is a bit of leeway to do some of this really funky stuff.

Especially if it's like every so often. So I managed to get some fresh pineapples and get everyone to cut them up and some pineapple puree as well.

Martin (25:22)
I actually saw that I saw a real

I saw a clip of that on social media actually and and it was just like someone standing there going Yeah, I'm the one who has to peel the pineapples kind of thing.

Sophie Ashdown (25:30)
Yeah. Yeah. And that was

something like really fun to do and different as well to what I would normally be able to kind of do on my day to day kind of work. So yeah, there's sometimes a bit of leeway, but there's sometimes like I've got a spec and I've got to meet it. And

I can I can kind of come up with the best way to do things cost effective.

and everything like that as well. one of our beers basic, which is a pumpkin spice latte porter. And I did a little bit of research into actually using real spices in the beer instead to give it that kind of subtle taste instead of like using flavorings, for example.

So I've got a little bit of a, yeah, got some giveaway.

Martin (26:25)
Yeah. What sort of spices did you use then?

Sophie Ashdown (26:28)
So there was an actual pumpkin spice blend, nutmeg, cinnamon, and clove. And it's just like, it's not super overpowering, which is nice because not everyone likes a really pumpkin spicy beer. So it's nice and subtle. Yeah, it's nice and subtle.

Martin (26:45)
Yeah, that's that's me. So it's very slight

hints, yeah. I think with anything that's quite powerful like that, you need to have subtle hints of it rather than it completely

Sophie Ashdown (26:55)
Mmm.

Martin (26:56)
overpowering like the malt and hops or whatever you know, that sort of side of things. So, yeah, so what this is a question to both of you what beer are you most proud of that you've brewed and what made it stand out to you personally?

Sophie Ashdown (27:13)
I mean, any beer that I've done for International Women's Day or the Women in Beer is, I'm super proud of that. I'm super proud about the people that I get here and to get into beer and to meet new people. And that they also sell really well in the end and that

it's all going towards something as well and either raising money for charity

speaking out about women in beer and also trying to get more women into beer. You don't have to be into the industry, you don't really have to like beer to try and want to try it.

So I like trying to grab people and get them to try something and see what they like. Because when I first started working in a tap house, I was so not interested in beer, so not interested in it. So it's been a long journey.

Yeah, and now

I do. I've been around beer all my life. So actually finally getting into it after a couple of years was great and I enjoy it. So those beers are, yeah, I'm proud of those a lot. They're really close to my heart.

Martin (28:30)
Yeah, I think I think the more and more women in the industry are getting more involved and wanting to be involved with beer. And it's not just you don't have to just be, you know, going for a brewer's role. There's other there's many, many roles in the brewing industry that

Natalya Brown (28:43)
Yeah.

Martin (28:44)
you can apply yourself to. And I think yeah, getting that message across to more and more people is only gonna be beneficial and obviously like the women in beer collaborations are amazing, as you was talking about earlier. Yeah, definitely. So how about yourself, Nat? What's your been your

Standout moment for you brewing a beer. Okay.

Natalya Brown (29:01)
I have two to be fair. One was a

homebrew one. at the time as an apprentice, it I wanted to make something for my dad. and I wanted it a bit of a secret, so I couldn't obviously use his kit. but the head brewer at the time still he had his own that he kept at the brewery, so he let me use it, he helped me with the recipe, and I came up with a s I think it was originally supposed to be like 7.5%

stout ended up about 8.5 9-ish as it does.

Martin (29:32)
Well,

Natalya Brown (29:36)
but it was a Black Forest Gateau stout that I

had done just all by myself with the help of the recipe design with the with stew that my dad absolutely loved. I made the label itself, I bottled it, and it was for a Christmas present. So I'd say that

It was one of my kind of more emotional ones that I was like really excited for him to try it.

Martin (29:57)
that's lovely. Was it was he super proud of you as well for creating something so amazing?

Natalya Brown (30:03)
Yeah. I I called it my dad is Chuck Norris, which for Halloween he dressed up

Martin (30:08)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (30:09)
as Chuck Norris. He looked

he looked terrible, but you know, it just kind of stuck in my head. and I got a picture of him holding the bottle when he found it and just looking so proud.

It has to be the one that's closest to my heart. And then the second one I'd say, on kind of the bigger kit, I'd say was my first lager that I brewed. obviously they are notorious for being difficult to mess about with. And this yeah. This like

Martin (30:34)
Yes. There's no escape in a lager, is there?

Natalya Brown (30:40)
just one of those, I think they show quite a bit of talent of a brewer. Obviously, there's not much you can hide a lot like behind a lager. You've not got the dry hopping.

you've just got the brew day and then you've got to hope and pray that that fermentation goes well and that you're getting everything that you wanted. And my first lager when I did it, I was so, so happy and so impressed that I didn't get any off flavours and it tasted how I wanted and that it went down like a treat

Martin (31:09)
Awesome, yeah.

what's your experience of being working in teams been like and what's it like working in the industry as a whole?

Sophie Ashdown (31:16)
Working as a team, I mean, I've worked behind bars before and stuff. So it's kind of been like nothing surprising necessarily, but having different areas in the brewery, for example, when like some people are brewing and some people are on production and

making sure that you're communicating between the two teams essentially.

and making sure you know what's going on and say like, right, this beer is ready to be packaged. I've got it all in spec for you. But then also you're not just two teams, you're there to help each other out. Like someone,

Martin (31:57)
Yeah, you're one. You're one team

Sophie Ashdown (31:59)
yeah, if someone's ill or someone's got like, or people need to go for their lunch break, it's hopping on that canning line and helping out when you can. Yeah.

Martin (32:08)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (32:10)
That's kind of the for the team, really. What was the other part of the question? Sorry.

Martin (32:17)
what's it like working in the industry?

Sophie Ashdown (32:21)
Working in the industry, it's been, like, there's so much change within the brewing world. And especially like what goes on with the brewery and stuff. I've been here for a good few years and there's been a lot of change here, for example.

All great and bad change because that's what happens in kind of any way you work, really.

But working in the industry, mean, there's obviously been tough bits. But then going to things like Brewer's Congress and meeting people and like finally meeting Nat as well. like meeting all these people that

Martin (33:04)
Yes. Yeah. I found you both.

Sophie Ashdown (33:08)
I know their names, but I don't

Martin (33:09)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (33:10)
know who you are and actually seeing people and

Martin (33:12)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (33:13)
creating that kind of fun and like that fun space.

to kind of just geek out and nerd out on beer Like,

Natalya Brown (33:21)
Ha ha

Martin (33:21)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (33:22)
I love talking about beer I find it exciting, but not everyone always finds it as exciting as

Natalya Brown (33:26)
Ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (33:27)
I do.

Martin (33:29)
Yeah. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (33:30)
Yeah.

Martin (33:31)
I think everyone I've spoken to like in trade events like Brewers Congress I love Brewers Congress and I love BeerX as well in Liverpool. I think that's another an amazing event as well. And yeah, just it's so great just to talk to people and you know, ask them questions and there just so happy to answer them for you because they just love talking about the beers and beers

in general. Yeah. So what about about yourself Nat How have you found yourself working with with teams and in brewing industry?

Natalya Brown (33:57)
In the brewing side, it is just me and the boss. usually I just get him to put the grains in our auger and then I tell him that's it. I'm ready. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. He helps out a lot to be fair. He is really good, John. it does help me quite a bit, especially when it's a bit of a longer day. He offers quite a bit of help and also just

Martin (34:08)
You can you can go down.

Natalya Brown (34:24)
Taste testing, do you that kind of hey John, I know it's nine in the morning, but can you taste this beer? I feel like there's something wrong with it. Just to make sure.

Martin (34:31)
Nine in the morning. I think I'd struggle at nine in the morning to try a beer at that time.

Especially if I've had a few the night before.

Natalya Brown (34:38)
No,

yeah, the night before I leave it

way later. But

Martin (34:41)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (34:42)
I do rely on me br the

bartenders as well. we've got a handful of bartenders and I love them to pieces. I'm happy that they can come to me if we've I know it it's a little bit

of a silly thing, but like any issues in the bar side, I'm happy to help with that. obviously if they need a day off, I'm more than happy to cover them. since I do get a bit of I work four days a week, so I can at least offer a day like a day of my time to cover for them.

and then when our previous headbrewer Stu was around, it was a really nice working with him. He was completely different to me in almost every way. He was like taller

than me, huge. I was tiny.

He was very energetic and full of just life. And it was just one of those I think it kind of grew onto me and it's been passed over. I wouldn't change it for the life of me.

But working by myself can be quite strenuous. I'm hoping at some point I convince the boss to get an apprentice so I can kind of take them under my wing and we can learn stuff together at the same time.

Martin (35:45)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (35:49)
and then for the industry, I love and hate it at the same time. I have so many people in the industry that I can rely on. I can ask them questions. I love, you know.

Azvex I'm good friends with the head brewer there. I love asking him questions about the sours and anything that's weird because the stuff that he makes, I look up to, they were great. Same with Tartarus, I love the stouts that they do, and

I love asking loads of nerdy questions to em And the likes of BeerX, the Brewers Congress,

beer festivals, having that moment to escape the brewery, but also talk about brewing

is always

a weird one.

my parents don't understand what the f like the joy of it of going, hey, this is what I've done in a brew day and I'm telling it to everybody else in this everybody else is brewing. But it's

just the joy of it. It's like, I did this, it's amazing. Have you tried it? And just geeking

out over this small idea of this new hop or new yeast.

Martin (36:49)
Yeah.

And everyone's happy to share their secrets as well, aren't they?

Natalya Brown (36:52)
Yeah, more than happy to. the amount of times that I've been stuck on something that's just been stuck in my head of like the smoothie sours, trying to get that into solution and just trying to figure it out. And I won't reveal too much, but from what I've learned is my God, there's a lot of engineering you've gotta kind of come up with to get it to work and some weird

techniques of yeah, they it's

It's fun to learn what other people are doing, question it yourself, try it and go, my god, they're a genius.

Martin (37:26)
Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, you've both been working in the industry for a while and it clearly paid off. You were both finalists for Best New Brewer at the Brewers Congress and Sophie, you won. So congratulations to you and both of you for being

Sophie Ashdown (37:41)
you.

Martin (37:42)
nominated.

Natalya Brown (37:42)
Yeah.

Martin (37:44)
what did it mean to you when you won Young Brewer of the Year? Like, you know.

Sophie Ashdown (37:48)
I mean, it

still feels really surreal. Like,

it's kind of almost, I don't know, blanked out in my mind a bit, because it just happens like quick and

then when people mention it, I'm like, my God, yeah. I can't believe it. It's just, yeah, it is, it felt so surreal, but also at the same time.

I mean, I feel proud of myself and all the work that I've done and what I'm still doing and it just makes me want to be better and carry on doing what I'm doing

and also supporting other people as well and I put the recognition, other people also need recognition too, of what they've done and what they are doing.

I just, yeah, I just, yeah, I don't believe it.

Natalya Brown (38:50)
Ha

ha ha ha ha.

Martin (38:53)
Still not quite hit you just yet. You're still excited, like

Sophie Ashdown (38:55)
Yeah, every time I

feel like

my glass tucked away somewhere at the moment and every time I kind

Martin (39:00)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (39:01)
of see it go.

Martin (39:05)
Hello.

Sophie Ashdown (39:04)
Take a smile.

Martin (39:06)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (39:06)
Ha ha ha.

Martin (39:07)
How about you, Nate? What was it like being being nominated for Best New Borough?

Natalya Brown (39:12)
I I'd say it was a bit unexpected, I have to admit. I wasn't expecting someone to reach out and nominate me. Still not no idea who did it or what they thought. I'm curious, you know, but at the same time it was that leading up to it, I at the same time I couldn't believe I'd been nominated and that I was getting so many well done's congratulations, being nominated. And it just

made me feel really happy and proud of what I've been able to accomplish and just see how far I can go. Obviously Sophie won and that was well

worth it. Everybody who was there, well worth winners and nominations. It was great to be up there with some absolutely

fantastic names, even if it was on other categories as well. It was

just one of those where I was like, maybe next year, maybe next year I'll be nominated. Yeah.

Martin (40:03)
There's always exactly there's always

next year. But I mean, yeah, just being nominated is amazing, isn't it? Is it and you know any everyone who's nominated deserves to win and you know, it's there's no no hard feelings, either or bitterness between anyone. it's

Natalya Brown (40:08)
He's beautiful. It was great to just

No, absolutely not, no.

Martin (40:18)
really everyone's so proud of everyone's achievements it is, yeah, it is.

Natalya Brown (40:20)
Everyone else, yeah. It's a great time to just celebrate. It's even,

you know, the small breweries that you've never known before, you kinda go, I'll have to check the stuff out. you know, there was a few

breweries I didn't know that'd been nominated and I looked up what they do and what the beers found some, tried some and I'm gone, Yeah, these really

good. I've never heard of em you know? It's just yeah.

Martin (40:44)
Give give go. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

So yeah, looking ahead, what would you both love to achieve in brewing in the next

five years?

Natalya Brown (40:57)
Mm.

Sophie Ashdown (41:02)
I think one of my own little goal to myself, whether that is five years or maybe a bit longer, like open up a small micro bar and get in really good indie craft beer. And maybe have my own little brew kit in the back as my little hobby.

Martin (41:21)
Yes, you have to. Little brew pub.

Sophie Ashdown (41:24)
And just making a space for people to geek out about beer, but also...

Getting people together, which I just love. I love that there's such a big community around beer

as well, and that you can bond and you can chat to random person just over a pint. it doesn't have to be times. Yeah.

Martin (41:45)
Yeah. over the pint you're drinking, just to talk

about the beer that you're actually drinking, yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (41:50)
Yeah,

and so that was my own little kind of goal to one day do, but maybe in the next five years here become lead or head brewer eventually. So we'll see. We'll see.

Martin (42:06)
We'll see.

Natalya Brown (42:06)
Yeah.

Martin (42:07)
We'll be keeping a close eye on your on your ladder. See how far you progress in Buxton for sure. How about you, Nat?

Sophie Ashdown (42:12)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (42:18)
I'd say for the next five years I'd like to kind of expand my knowledge. I love learning new stuff. It's one of those. I love

just reading different kinds of things and I'd be tempted to do the masters, the master course for brewing.

not quite yet. I'd like to kind of get myself into a good position where I'm proud of what I'm doing.

well, I am proud

of what I'm doing, sorry, but like it's as best as I can give, and then kind of excel with the master's course. I'd also like at some point as Sophie to run my own bar or even my own brewery kind of situation. I feel like that's an ideal for anybody in the industry. It's just

Martin (42:59)
Yeah, yeah.

Natalya Brown (43:00)
owning your own brewery and going, what have I got myself into?

Martin (43:05)
Yeah,

I think everyone says that as well to start their brewery. It's just like, my God, what have I got myself They don't realise how much

Natalya Brown (43:12)
Yeah

Martin (43:13)
it costs as well. And like, you know, I think a lot of them say that make sure you've got plenty of money put aside because there's gonna be additional costs when you're when you're a 100%

Natalya Brown (43:23)
Yeah, it's stuff that you don't even realise.

Martin (43:25)
yeah. That's the probably best bit of advice that anyone could give starting up a brewery

Natalya Brown (43:29)
Yeah.

Martin (43:30)
is make sure you've got plenty of money on the side.

Natalya Brown (43:34)
Plenty of money and a bit of sanity to spare.

Martin (43:34)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need that.

Sanity should be part and parcel with opening up a brewery. You've got to be like you've got to be crazy.

You've got to be a bit crazy to open up one in this day and age. But

Natalya Brown (43:46)
Yeah.

Martin (43:47)
yeah. So we're gonna enter the last stage of the podcast. We're gonna do some quick fire questions. to make it a little bit easier. We'll start with Sophie and then and then Nat for each question. So one beer style that you think deserves more attention.

Sophie Ashdown (44:04)
Brown Ale.

Martin (44:07)
Brown Ale straight away off the back. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (44:08)
Yeah, brown ale. It's

Natalya Brown (44:08)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (44:10)
nice, nutty, easy drinking.

Martin (44:14)
Is that because it's getting closer to winter and it's a bit colder or The weather

Sophie Ashdown (44:17)
yeah, I've got one stored in my fridge ready.

Natalya Brown (44:17)
Yeah.

Martin (44:20)
always changes. I mean if it was middle of summer, everyone would be probably saying lagers or something, but

Sophie Ashdown (44:26)
Brown Ale

Martin (44:27)
Yeah, how about Nat Yes. I love a west coast.

Natalya Brown (44:29)
West Coast by far, I feel like they need recognition.

I feel like it's one of those when you're on the bar and you go, we got this really nice West Coast, and you go, like, it's got the orange peel, it's bitter. And as soon as you mention bitter, the person goes, not for me. And it's like, no, give it a chance. It's like a refreshing bitter. It's good to have. Piny, refreshing,

Martin (44:49)
I lead with Piney. I lead with Piney. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (44:53)
and just especially when it's summer, it is so nice to have.

Martin (44:57)
Yeah. What about ABV though? is it on the high end or are you more of like a low ABV west coast?

Natalya Brown (45:04)
Low ABV I'd say. I anything over I'd say six is getting a little bit silly with West Coast, I'd say. But I I

Sophie Ashdown (45:12)
Hehehehe

Martin (45:12)
That's that that that used that's the

kind of the the traditional kind of ABV though, isn't it? For a West Coast. It used to be around

Natalya Brown (45:17)
Yeah.

Martin (45:18)
6 - 7.5% And I do feel that ABV probably puts off a lot of people if they're

Natalya Brown (45:23)
Yeah.

Martin (45:24)
buying that. So I like my West Coast but to be a low ABV, but still be traditional to style and flavour. just a bit lower, yeah. A hundred percent.

Natalya Brown (45:30)
Yeah. I just like it when

summer, just want a few like 4.5 - 5%

Martin (45:36)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (45:36)
west coast, a few pints of and then happy days

Martin (45:39)
Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. I I find myself I just want to drink something a bit more bitter these days than actually, you know, getting a bar full of hazy IPAs and pales

Sophie Ashdown (45:48)
Thank

Martin (45:50)
Just wanna say a bit different just to quench my first and give me that little bit of bitterness as well

Sophie Ashdown (45:52)
Thank

Natalya Brown (45:52)
Yeah.

Martin (45:54)
to it. yeah, that's maybe that's my old age probably showing for my taste buds are changing. So, next one, one brewery. That's not the one that you work for, because that'd be a bit biased.

that you

Natalya Brown (46:08)
Yeah.

Martin (46:08)
think people should be paying attention to?

Sophie Ashdown (46:14)
I don't know

I mean, I'm gonna have to go with one of my favourites, which is Fyne Ales Origins. They're mixed firm stuff that

Martin (46:22)
Yes. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (46:24)
they do. And that it, because they don't have loads of stuff out all the time for it. So it's nice to get your hands on it when you can.

Martin (46:31)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (46:33)
And I mean, I've gone through quite a lot of that range.

Natalya Brown (46:36)
Ha ha ha

Sophie Ashdown (46:38)
In one sitting. So yeah, I think them. Like, I mean, I'm a sucker.

I'm a sucker for Scotland, so, and I like Lock Fyne So yeah, Fyne Ales origins is like where it's at for me, definitely.

Martin (46:54)
Yeah. Awesome.

Sophie Ashdown (46:56)
I just can't think of any one else on the top of my head as quickly as them at the moment.

Martin (47:00)
Well that exactly what if if they're

Natalya Brown (47:01)
Ha ha ha.

Martin (47:02)
the best the brewery that comes into your head, then that's the one you have to go for. It's the first one that pops into your head, isn't it? So

Sophie Ashdown (47:05)
Yeah.

Martin (47:07)
how about you not?

Natalya Brown (47:09)
I'd say small batch brewing. I met him a few years ago and he was literally just a homebrewer in the back of his house. I met him through a friend of family kind of situation and got into conversation. We did a collab with him, put his stuff on show, obviously did a West Coast 'cause we both had the same love of West Coast.

Martin (47:30)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (47:31)
And it was just phenomenal to taste his stuff and it's so so beautiful and he just

opened up his own bar last year, I believe. And it's a beautiful bar. He loves his kind of his Star Wars, so there's a bit of like Star Wars references around the place.

his beers are just they're amazing. I really, really love them. His fruit salad waterfall, I think it's called, is one of my favourites by far that he makes and it's one of his cores that he's been doing and just he deserves recognition.

Martin (48:02)
Awesome.

big high five to small batch brewing. There we are.

Natalya Brown (48:07)
Yeah.

Martin (48:08)
So if there was one beer you would choose

to introduce people to independent beer, you know, I'm talking about the people that go down the pub and drink Foster's, Carling, Guinness, you know, them sort of beers. If there was one beer to try and persuade them to drink independent UK beer, what would it be?

Sophie Ashdown (48:26)
so hard, like, beers so subjective.

Martin (48:32)
Yeah. I mean I probably would choose a like a lager to kind of say to em

Sophie Ashdown (48:35)
Yeah, a craft, yeah, craft lager

or just like a generic kind of session pale ale I think that's not too bitter, not too citrusy. It's just kind of easy drinking.

Martin (48:48)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (48:49)
I think that's a good one. But then quite a lot of people that I've met have said sours have been my in, which is my in as well.

Martin (48:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (49:01)
And it is like...

It is crazy that sours is normally what gets people into beer.

Martin (49:07)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (49:08)
Because some of them can be super tart. But I mean, yeah, if you want to get into indie beer and craft beer, just a session pale ale, that's really good percentage, like 4%. Not too citrusy, not too bitter, you could have three, sink em easy. I think that is kind of a good...

if you already kind of like beer as well. I think that's a good one to get you into craft beer, Or a big touch.

Martin (49:37)
Yeah. To try and get them off

that Fosters and Carling and onto something decent.

Natalya Brown (49:41)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (49:41)
Yes.

Martin (49:42)
Yeah.

And we move on to Nat's answer. What what kind of beer style would you offer them? Yeah. Everyone everyone's saying so. I spoke to Natalya Watson as well and and and she was saying about,

Natalya Brown (49:48)
I'd have to agree with the sours I also got into beer through sours.

Martin (49:58)
you know, like to get people into beer, like a sour and I'm like I tried my first sour was like a kettle sour and I my face just went

Sophie Ashdown (50:04)
So.

Martin (50:06)
in all different directions after trying it. Like it was just like that and I was like, This it was too much for me.

Natalya Brown (50:10)
I think it must be like a bit of a like a lady

thing, because I find that quite a few

people in the industry that I've met, quite a few of the women that have also said that they've gotten into it through sours. And

Martin (50:21)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (50:21)
I think it must be like the sweetness of it. Like this I know there's it's obviously sour, but sweet. Yeah. And then

Martin (50:23)
Yeah, or cider drinkers, wine drinkers probably would work for them. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (50:29)
I'd say a nitro stout as well. I'd say those ones are really good ones. yeah,

Martin (50:31)
yes. Mm that's a good one. That'd be a yeah, a lot of Guinness drinkers out there as well, so

Sophie Ashdown (50:32)
yeah.

Natalya Brown (50:36)
it's obviously getting a lot more popular. we

occasionally sell two crows and I absolutely love the stout for it. it's nitro stout, real creamy and soft and it's very easy for to go, you like Guinness? Do you want try this? And then they go, yeah, I really like this. They don't try the pales but at least it's a step forward, if that makes sense. Yeah, small steps.

Martin (50:58)
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. It's yeah. My my

my favourite go to is London Black Anspach If wherever I see

Natalya Brown (51:03)
London Black is glorious. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (51:04)
Yeah, I agree with that one.

Martin (51:06)
that, I mean I'm just like, yeah, I'll have a London Black, please.

Natalya Brown (51:08)
Yeah.

Martin (51:10)
it's just my go to dark beer if I'm fancying something a bit, you know. I like a porter anyway, I love porters and having nitro. I wanna see a nitro red ale That should be that would be interesting. Mm. Yes. Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (51:24)
I've had a nitro bitter before and that was

Natalya Brown (51:23)
I think that would be interesting.

Sophie Ashdown (51:27)
that was good. Super

Martin (51:28)
Like Yeah.

Natalya Brown (51:29)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (51:30)
creamy.

Natalya Brown (51:31)
Nitro might be the way for everything now.

Martin (51:33)
I could be that I think I d I think I mean I was talking

Sophie Ashdown (51:33)
It's nice to have everything. That's it.

Martin (51:36)
to Dean Baker from Baker's Dozen and he was saying that he's thinking about doing a nitro lager. because his kind of first beer that he remembers drinking in the old days was Carling Premier, which is like a a nitro lager and I I've never even heard of a nitro lager. I was too young when that was around. But

Sophie Ashdown (51:53)
No.

Natalya Brown (51:54)
No, even for me.

Martin (51:55)
yeah, so he he's he said the last batch he done was a lager and he was very, very considering making it a nitro.

And he he I said, Well, you've got to do it now. You know, you said it to the world, you have to make a nitro lager. So that could be an interesting one. That could be something

Natalya Brown (52:10)
Yeah.

Martin (52:11)
that takes people off a

Sophie Ashdown (52:12)
I'm

holding him here for it now. He's got to do it.

Martin (52:15)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wants to

do a collaboration, bring him up, bring him over and say, let's get this Nitro Lager idea off the ground. I think it'll do really

Sophie Ashdown (52:21)
Hahaha

Martin (52:22)
well. but yeah, maybe Nitro is the way that people are gonna start going. you know, use Guinness's kind of marketing against them. Or

Natalya Brown (52:31)
Yeah.

Martin (52:33)
So yeah. Finally, last question. And

You know, what's the best beer you've ever had? Or what was the first beer that you've thought, my god, this is amazing and still think

it's amazing today?

Natalya Brown (52:48)
I feel like that's a really tricky question. I feel like you're giving us really hard questions to think about.

Martin (52:53)
yeah, they're not really quickfire, are they? But

this is why I send the questions out prior to the chat. Come on guys, like help me out.

Natalya Brown (52:59)
Yeah. I still struggled with it.

Sophie Ashdown (53:01)
But even then I'm I don't

know.

Natalya Brown (53:08)
Ooh.

Sophie Ashdown (53:09)
I don't know.

Natalya Brown (53:11)
Ha ha

Martin (53:13)
It's a tough one.

Natalya Brown (53:14)
It is really soft.

Martin (53:16)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (53:17)
It is really hard. Errr... Gosh.

My first kind of beer that got me liking beer was the Scotch Far Skyline that we did years and years ago, well, like seven years ago.

And it was a Berliner Weisse aged in a Scotch barrel. And it was amazing. I remember it being so good and or the lemon meringue Omnipolo Collab

Natalya Brown (53:50)
Ooh.

Sophie Ashdown (53:52)
it was super lemony but sweet lemony it wasn't like it

was a good balance and I remember those two being my absolute favourites from Buxton when I first started and that's kind of what then shifted me a lot more into beer but then I remember being really young and trying some old peculiar at very young age and going I like this and then

Natalya Brown (54:16)
Ha

Martin (54:18)
Ha ha ha.

Sophie Ashdown (54:20)
15 years later

I'm drinking it as pints going, I remember this.

Martin (54:25)
Yeah.

Awesome. And Nat have you have you sparked any imagination there w with the what kind of beer? What's the kind of like first beer you drank and thought I like beer?

Natalya Brown (54:39)
it's a bit of a hard one. My dad always gave me taste of his kind of craft beers that he got and he he's

Martin (54:44)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (54:45)
notorious for having his barrel age and his stout. So obviously I'm there going, that's awful, that's terrible.

Martin (54:51)
Yeah.

Sophie Ashdown (54:52)
No.

Natalya Brown (54:53)
and then I think it was I think it was a tiny rebel, sweetheart sour, I think it was. And I had a little taste and I was like, my god, this was fantastic. And then it just kind of escalated.

to a point that I finally understand why my dad loves like barley wines and stouts and all that. like we love having emperors Emperor Brewing stouts. It's one of my favourites by far for a stout is anything that he makes, it's always thick, gooey, sweet, and it's just the flavours he does. I go, how does he do this?

Martin (55:32)
Yeah. Collaboration.

Natalya Brown (55:35)
yeah, it's due. He's from where I'm from as well, so fingers crossed.

Martin (55:40)
Can't say no then.

Natalya Brown (55:44)
but then also at the same time, I don't know, I'd say

So many different beers, it's always hard to pinpoint one that I've really enjoyed and kind of made me go, Jesus Christ, this is fantastic. I'd say the most recent one was Azvex's P

Martin (55:58)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (56:03)
Doom, the the first one from last year. And I can just remember me and my dad getting a hand out of one of these cans, going home after a few drinks, opening it and pouring it, and then just

going.

where's the beer? And having to squeeze the can into a bit into a glass, having a taste, and it tastes like brownie batter. I was just amazed that it was just so good at the same time. It was

Martin (56:21)
Yeah.

Natalya Brown (56:30)
one of I think by far one of the weirdest but also greatest beers I've had at this point.

Martin (56:36)
Awesome. I think one I

remember was a a TIPA It was like 10.3% from Deya It was called Such Magic Never Lasts. And it didn't because it was never brewed again. And Deya Deya if you're listening,

Sophie Ashdown (56:47)
No.

Martin (56:52)
brew it again. Because that was the best TIPA I've ever had in my life. It was just it you wouldn't even know it was 10% it was that dangerous. It was crazy. And

Natalya Brown (56:59)
Yeah.

Martin (57:00)
it was a big can of it and I drank it all. And yeah.

But it was yeah, it's just load so so typical and the name as well was such

Natalya Brown (57:07)
It was well worth it.

Martin (57:10)
magic never lasts. And it was probably they did that on purpose because I reckon. but they could yeah, they need to brew that again. Yeah.

Natalya Brown (57:14)
Possibly it's well worth it though.

Martin (57:18)
It was, it was, but they need to brew it again, sorry, but

it needs to be done again.

Natalya Brown (57:21)
Ha ha ha

Martin (57:23)
but

that's it I think guys. it's been absolutely amazing talking to you both. And again, congratulations Sophie for winning best new young brewer.

Sophie Ashdown (57:32)
Thank you.

Martin (57:34)
And Natalya, next year you're definitely it's up for you. I'll be I'll be voting for you.

Natalya Brown (57:39)
Thank you so much. Yeah,

Sophie Ashdown (57:39)
Thank you, it's been great seeing you guys again.

Natalya Brown (57:42)
great to meet you both again.

Absolutely.

Sophie Ashdown (57:48)
Yeah.