Pillars Brewery: Crafting Quality Lagers in London With Peter Kennelly

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 Lager is a style that has been lambasted. It's been beaten down by marketing campaigns and macro

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 brewers telling you what lager is. They're telling you what lager is because they're

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 making a very refined deep industrial version of it in order to sell it.

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 Hello and welcome to the Be A Rep Chat with another episode and another guest I'm delighted

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 to be joined by Peter Kennelly. He's head of sales at Pillars Brewery in London. Peter,

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 thanks for joining the show. No worries. Thanks for having me, Martin.

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 It's great to have you on. I'm a big fan of Pillars and all the lagers that they do.

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 Absolutely beautiful lagers. We're going to be talking lager today, yeah?

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 I could talk about it for literally weeks.

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 You should be a pro at whatever question comes your way today then.

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 Firstly, can you tell us a bit about your background and how you came to be

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 head of sales at Pillars? It's a long story but I'll keep it brief.

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 When I get asked this question, I'm quite excited to share in that it's something that

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 I'm quite passionate about in terms of getting more people into the industry.

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 Obviously, everybody has their own different route. I came to London a long time ago from

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 Dublin. I worked in restaurants and stuff in Dublin throughout my college or uni as you

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 call it over here to pay the bills. I always loved hospitality, I loved food, but I never

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 worked in pubs back home because the standard for entry into pubs in Dublin is quite high,

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 which is a good thing. Anyway, moved over to London with the aspirations of being a sports

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 journalist, which went down like a lead balloon pretty quickly as I realized that

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 the likelihood of that happening plus the impending rent costs kicked in. I got a job

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 in my local pub, which is at the time I was living in Elfen Castle, so it was a pub on the

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 South Bank, which was great. Really high volume pub, working and getting paid pittance, but

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 learnt loads. Something that kind of stuck with me, which doesn't happen or doesn't really

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 exist back home in Dublin or Ireland, is cask beer. The pub that I was working for was

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 a big champion of cask beer. It was a whole new realm of beer that I was introduced to,

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 and it got me really excited about beer. Also, the most thing that excited me about

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 cask beer was the whole selling process, looking after it. I was like, ah, this is

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 managing food and you have an influence in the end product, which really excited me.

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 I worked there for a pub, worked my way up, and then I got a couple of other management

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 jobs, but the big job that kind of changed my career, and I'm sure everybody who listens

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 to this knows them and has an opinion on them, was that I worked for BrewDog. I was

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 part of their management training course at BrewDog for a year, so that was learning

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 every element of beer dispense, BrewDog's ideology along the way, of course. Also,

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 what was really exciting was being part of a training program, a Cicerone program,

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 to be fair, I can't fault BrewDog. You can say many things about them now, but back then when

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 I was there, the support we got in terms of training was incredible. I still think,

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 and you probably maybe have met or have interviewed many people, but there's almost

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 like some sort of a Busby Babes kind of group of people that are now working in

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 the beer industry that come from BrewDog because of the skills and knowledge they

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 learned there. I managed bars for BrewDog for about four years and really enjoyed it,

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 got to travel the world, got to meet amazing brewers, do amazing events, learn the inside

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 out of pouring, to cellars, to beer styles, getting up to second level Cicerone, which

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 was great. It was a really good way to get into the industry, and more importantly,

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 get into beer. Then I had a partner at the time and she realized that the only

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 time I'd see her would be maybe 11pm, 12pm, and she's asleep and I'm coming home throwing

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 keys out the window. I was like, okay, can't really go on like this. I wanted to stay in

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 the industry because I actually love pubs, I love beer, I love breweries, I love everything

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 about it, but I needed slightly better hours. I went to the dark side, as it was considered

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 back then, into the world of sales. I worked for E-Beer Trade, which was an online

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 going on. David, who was running at the time, a very smart man, and we were going at a rate

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 of knots. That was a really good learning curve in terms of speaking to customers,

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 trying to figure out how to sell in general, because I never had any sales training,

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 I knew what I was kind of doing, thinking, yeah, here's the product, everybody loves it,

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 off you go. It was a lot more than that. It's not that simple. It really thought it was

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 back in the day. I guess context is everything. That was back in 2015,

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 2016, when if you opened a pub down the road and someone walked in with a bottle of muddy water,

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 they'd probably still buy it because everything's going fine and I've got the margins,

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 and people are trying new things. It's a very different time now, obviously.

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 I worked at E-Beer for about a year and a half, really enjoyed it. Then a colleague

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 that I knew at BrewDog was working as head of sales for Siren Brewery. That was at the

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 time, and still are, I think one of the best breweries in the UK. Getting a brewery of that

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 scale and that reputation asked me to be part of the sales team. I couldn't say no to that,

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 so I worked with Siren for just under three years, really enjoyed my time there,

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 mainly looking after North and East London of their accounts and building Siren and its

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 reputation and its presence in my patch was a big part of the job and something I really

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 enjoyed. What really, really took it to the next level from Siren, both personally and

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 beer sales in general, and maybe taking a step back and working smarter rather than harder

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 in terms of why people should buy your beer and whatnot. Understanding a little bit more

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 of the strategy and the processes towards sales in a bigger picture way without sounding too

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 wanky. From there, and then I actually met the guys at Pillars because I was

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 selling Siren to them. I met Gavin and Omar, two of the founders. Unbeknownst to me,

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 I only found this out via a LinkedIn post six months ago that they were considering me

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 at the time through the interactions I was having with them when I was representing Siren.

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 They really liked that, which was really humbling to find out. They kept their cards

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 close to their chests, which I understand. I bet they were delighted when you approached

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 them then. Yeah, the job went up and it was a combination of, well, I was living

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 at Black Horse Road at the time, which is just one stop down from Waltham South Central,

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 so I was like, okay, this is a little bit closer than Siren, which is out near Reading.

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 Also, I saw the market shifting towards Larger in terms of smaller, independent Larger,

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 which I'm sure we'll talk about. The interactions I had with Gavin and Omar, I was just like,

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 well, these are just really nice people. That was my first and foremost opinion was

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 these are people I could see myself working with. Yeah, and eventually they were looking

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 to expand or grow the sales team because they made a couple of changes in the business.

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 And it was just kind of good timing and probably, yeah, a bit serendipitous, but also I think

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 a lot of through hard work, they offered me the job. And yeah, I've been at Siren now for

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 just over four years. Pillars, you mean?

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 I'm sorry, Jesus, yeah, pillars. Yeah, a bit of pillars for just over four years.

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 I absolutely love it. That's a great story. I mean,

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 you've gone from quite reputable companies as well, from Brewdog to Ebrea. I mean,

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 Ebrea has been taken over by a beer 52 now, is that correct?

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 Correct, yeah. And then onto Siren and I mean,

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 yeah, what a great resume you've got there. It's all right.

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 Pillars started in 2016. Is it London's first specialist craft

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 Larger Brewery, kind of in the sense where they only specialised in quality Largers,

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 premium Largers? Well, yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

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 they're the first London independent brewery to focus on Largers and Largers alone. And

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 it's quite nice to chat to you about this now. It's our 10-year anniversary this year.

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 Lovely. So yeah, Gav,

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 Omar, Eamon and Sammy. Gavin is the old one out in terms of he's not one of the brothers.

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 Sammy, Eamon and Omar are three brothers. And then Gavin is one of Omar's best mates

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 from college back in her uni, back in Sheffield. So yeah, the four lads started

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 in 2016 in Walthamstow. And we are the first independent Larger Brewery in London and

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 it's been a wild ride. To be honest, yeah, 10 years, lots has happened in 10 years.

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 Yeah, definitely. I mean, was brewing Larger Pillars planned? Was it always going to be,

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 we're going to be Larger focused only? And what were the advantages of that? And what

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 challenges of that up facing, just brewing that style?

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 Yeah. So I was actually, I was doing a little bit of prep and I was listening to

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 your chat with, I think it was Jacob from Hackney Church. Really lovely guy. I've never

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 met him but he sounded great. And that was a really, really good interview. And it was,

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 you guys kind of touched on it. Like Larger, I think he said it, or maybe it was yourself,

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 there's nowhere to hide.

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 No, there isn't. You can make one mistake and that's it.

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 Whole batch is ruined.

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 Exactly. It was, the guys, yeah, they wanted to be Larger focused from the very

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 beginning, you know, and Ale Ease has never gone into the brewery or entered the brewery.

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 And hopefully that never will happen. The goal is for Ale Ease never to enter the

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 building. And yeah, there's so many challenges that come with that. At the time in 2016,

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 yourself and your viewers can transport yourself back there 10 years ago, which

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 probably feels like 50.

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 It certainly does.

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 Yeah, the craft beer market was a very different place. You know, it was, Brewdog,

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 of course, was thriving at the time and you had your kernels, you had your cloud

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 orders starting their V series, you know, and everything was just going like, it was how

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 many hops can we put in and everything and, or how much ABV can we get out of this

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 stout. So it was a very different world because people were probably sick of the

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 mass industrialized Larger. So you wanted something very different, which was

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 completely fair. So the guys did start at a challenging time, but yeah, they've

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 stuck with it and it was a big risk and it's massive kudos to the four guys that

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 did it because, you know, it's, I'm going to say it's come good, but think that the

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 market has changed very much in Larger's favor. Not saying it's easy, but the

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 demand and the appreciation for good Larger is growing, which is something

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 that we're very happy about.

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 Yeah, definitely. I mean, you've won many awards, pillars, including national

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 and international recognition for its pills and other Largers that you do. What

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 impact does that have on your sales conversations and positioning? I mean, I'm

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 guessing it helps quite a lot to say that you've won awards and stuff like

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 that. I mean, how much do, you know, your customers really take that on board

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 when they're deciding to stock your product?

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 Yeah, it's, it definitely has its benefits. You know, I see sales as

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 kind of like you're, you're facing a brick wall or human brick wall and

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 every kind of, you want to have tools in your belt to kind of bring bit

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 by bit that wall down to get someone to really engage and understand what

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 you're trying to achieve. So certain people or buyers will definitely be

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 looking for award-winning breweries and be searching it out. It kind of,

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 it gives the brand and the beers a little bit more validity and that

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 maybe, you know, wasn't there. You know, I find there's certain

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 awards that we've won that I think the brewers and the brewers

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 specifically, they'd say are really, really proud of, you know, winning

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 the Ciba's award last year for best keg session lager in the UK.

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 For me, that's an award that is, is something to really shout about.

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 And, you know, I probably shouldn't say, but there's a lot of beer awards

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 out there that I don't trust. There's a lot of beer awards and we

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 could probably have a whole separate podcast on beer awards.

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 A hundred percent.

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 So yeah, but like there's awards that the guys,

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 the brewers have won that I think really, really give kudos to what

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 they're trying to achieve. Like the Ciba award, like the World Beer

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 Awards, especially with the Ice Buck, you know, that I think really give

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 give the beer validity and it definitely helps, puts the walls down

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 as I say. But, you know, it's only one small chink against the wall of

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 but it's something you can kind of have in your tool belt if needed.

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 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So when you're, when you're pitching like pillars

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 against, you know, the big global brands, like, you know, your

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 Heineken's, your Carlin or your Madry's that are brewed in England,

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 them sort of beers that are everywhere. I mean, obviously before

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 we even look at access to market in most of these pubs,

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 what's the hardest objection you hear from pubs or buyers?

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 Yeah. Jesus. There's so many. There's so many.

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 Top five.

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 Top five. Yeah. So I guess, you know, it's price, you know, it

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 can't be ignored. And especially now as the market for pubs and

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 restaurants is getting more and more challenging, you know, it's

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 super important and we can't deny that. So price is definitely up

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 there, you know, access, you kind of touched on it there, access

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 to market, you know, again, we could probably have 10 offshoot

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 podcasts based on my opinions, but the fact that, you know, I

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 could live in, let's say Walton Forest, for example, and

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 there's a hundred pubs in Walton Forest, but as a small

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 independent brewery, I could only have access to one or

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 two based on your breweries that you've talked about and

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 the big pub chains where they really tie down the lines.

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 So that's huge. You know, as someone going out trying to

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 sell beer, there's some pubs that I just don't even bother

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 going in because it's completely waste of my time because I

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 know we don't, we're not listed with, you know, a huge

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 pub co or we're not, you know, part of Mad or Coors'

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 portfolio or Heineken's portfolio. And you know, it's

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 frustrating because if you're a cheese monger and you're

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 making amazing cheese, you want everybody to try your

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 cheese and you want to go to the local shop and sell

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 your cheese. I'm not affiliated with the cheese

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 world and how it works, but I'm sure there'll be some

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 similar idiosyncrasies of how you can get your cheese

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 out there. So, you know, it's, unfortunately, the UK beer

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 market is not a meritocracy. You know, there's amazing beers

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 out there, but they don't have access to market. So

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 pricing is one. Yeah, route to market is definitely up

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 there in terms of getting access. And then it's

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 probably tied into pricing, but the support that the

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 massive breweries can give new pubs or current pubs is

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 incredible for the pubs, but obviously it's disheartening

203
00:15:15.900 --> 00:15:18.740
 to see when, you know, you open a pub and, well, I've

204
00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:20.840
 mentioned four Coors can go in and they go, well, don't

205
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.080
 worry, I'll look after all your lines, all your cooler.

206
00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:25.940
 That's, you know, 10, 15 K, 20 K expense. Don't worry,

207
00:15:25.940 --> 00:15:28.440
 it's all on me. You know, just sign this massive huge

208
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:30.920
 document and don't read through the small fonts, kind

209
00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:32.580
 of like what do you want in a chocolate factory?

210
00:15:34.760 --> 00:15:36.960
 They go, yeah, great. And, you know, we'll give you

211
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:40.000
 one free line. But, you know, by the way, if you

212
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.180
 want one free line, you do have to sell six million

213
00:15:44.180 --> 00:15:47.200
 barrels of our beer first. So you could just put another

214
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:48.940
 one of our products on that line and you'll get closer

215
00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:50.880
 to hitting your targets and stuff like that.

216
00:15:50.900 --> 00:15:53.980
 Obviously I'm being a bit glib, but, you know,

217
00:15:53.980 --> 00:15:56.320
 that's a huge part of it that as a small brewery,

218
00:15:56.540 --> 00:15:58.920
 where, you know, we're a small team, our cost of

219
00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:01.620
 production is high. So we can't do that. We have

220
00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:03.040
 done some cool stuff working with other breweries

221
00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:04.420
 where we can help, you know, make a little bit of

222
00:16:04.420 --> 00:16:07.180
 an independent co-op and kind of work hand in

223
00:16:07.180 --> 00:16:10.480
 hand. So, you know, I think those are probably

224
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:11.280
 the top three.

225
00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:13.700
 Yeah, I think definitely the whole pub model needs

226
00:16:13.700 --> 00:16:20.480
 to be looked at because it's just crazy. So

227
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.580
 obviously we touched on the price and he said

228
00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:26.620
 it's a real barrier. Is it still like perception

229
00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:29.320
 education around what good lager actually is?

230
00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:32.740
 Do people associate lager as being a cheap beer

231
00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:34.720
 version that they can go and drink lots of

232
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.180
 and, you know, get wasted, have a good night?

233
00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.300
 Premium lager these days, especially

234
00:16:40.300 --> 00:16:42.220
 independents like yourself, has come along on

235
00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:45.100
 a long way. Do you think it's still with the

236
00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:47.700
 regular customer? Are they looking more towards

237
00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:49.740
 price or are they looking more towards premium?

238
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.120
 Do they think that these global brands are

239
00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.740
 premium beers, lagers?

240
00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:57.480
 Yeah, it's such a good question. And when

241
00:16:58.180 --> 00:17:00.140
 you're saying customers, in my mind, I'm

242
00:17:00.140 --> 00:17:01.820
 talking about like the pubs and restaurants I'm

243
00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:05.599
 selling to. Yeah, it is. Education is huge.

244
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:12.200
 You know, I love this industry because, you

245
00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:14.780
 know, there's evolutions of certain styles

246
00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:18.819
 and educational pieces I think are so

247
00:17:18.819 --> 00:17:21.420
 important. You know, you can't ignore what

248
00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:24.520
 the likes of Guinness are doing in terms of

249
00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:27.579
 the poor doing or maybe their drinkers are

250
00:17:27.579 --> 00:17:29.240
 doing and all their influencers are doing.

251
00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:32.500
 It's educating people that, you know,

252
00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:33.940
 there's more that goes into a pint than

253
00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:36.200
 you think. Yeah, what we're trying to do

254
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.500
 at Pillars is kind of is showcased to

255
00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:41.920
 our customers that, you know, you can get

256
00:17:43.180 --> 00:17:45.780
 what we think, you know, world-class lager,

257
00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:47.860
 you know, lager that is, you know, trying

258
00:17:47.860 --> 00:17:50.100
 to get as close to Bavarian quality or

259
00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:53.340
 Bohemian quality, but made, you know, two

260
00:17:53.340 --> 00:17:54.680
 miles up the road, four miles up the road,

261
00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:56.360
 ten miles up the road, or even in the

262
00:17:56.360 --> 00:18:00.060
 same country as you. Because for us, lagers,

263
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:02.380
 or not for us, but in general, lager is

264
00:18:02.380 --> 00:18:04.860
 a style that has been lambasted, it's

265
00:18:04.860 --> 00:18:08.020
 been beaten down by marketing campaigns

266
00:18:08.020 --> 00:18:10.200
 and macro brewers telling you what lager

267
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.760
 is. And, you know, they're telling you what

268
00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.760
 lager is because they're making a very

269
00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:16.560
 refined, deep, industrial version of it

270
00:18:16.560 --> 00:18:18.580
 in order to sell it. And call it a premium.

271
00:18:18.860 --> 00:18:21.080
 Exactly. Yeah. You wouldn't come and

272
00:18:21.080 --> 00:18:22.900
 taste this premium Kronenberg. No,

273
00:18:23.060 --> 00:18:25.660
 thanks. They just put a couple of ABV

274
00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:26.820
 on it and call it premium. So

275
00:18:27.740 --> 00:18:29.240
 it's a combination of how

276
00:18:29.780 --> 00:18:31.400
 it's been marketed and how it's been

277
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:33.340
 produced. It's such a good question

278
00:18:33.340 --> 00:18:34.900
 because, yeah, we're going to be more

279
00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:36.340
 expensive than, you know, your macro

280
00:18:36.340 --> 00:18:38.040
 breweries because, believe it or not,

281
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:39.880
 we actually lager our beers for six

282
00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.520
 weeks. You know, you can do a deep dive

283
00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:44.020
 and you read some good books by Mark

284
00:18:44.020 --> 00:18:45.940
 Dredge, the lager book, and you do the,

285
00:18:45.940 --> 00:18:47.520
 he did the hardcore research to

286
00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:48.540
 understand, you know, how long do you

287
00:18:48.540 --> 00:18:49.780
 think it takes to make a batch of

288
00:18:49.780 --> 00:18:52.140
 Carling, i.e. Madri. You know, so

289
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:53.780
 just, I think, as people are becoming

290
00:18:53.780 --> 00:18:55.840
 more discerning, drinkers are becoming

291
00:18:55.840 --> 00:18:57.000
 more aware. They want to know what

292
00:18:57.520 --> 00:18:59.100
 they're consuming. I think it happens

293
00:18:59.100 --> 00:19:00.360
 and it's happening in the food world

294
00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:01.660
 as well. What's really cool is you

295
00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:03.320
 see M&S bring out a range of foods

296
00:19:03.320 --> 00:19:04.540
 that are literally just five

297
00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:06.300
 ingredients. God, I'd love if beer did

298
00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:07.840
 the same because if people really knew

299
00:19:07.840 --> 00:19:09.800
 what was going into their can of

300
00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:12.700
 Cruz Campo or Madri, you know, I would

301
00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:14.520
 love laws to change and tell you where

302
00:19:14.520 --> 00:19:16.540
 it's being produced, you know, what's

303
00:19:16.540 --> 00:19:18.360
 actually going into it, what's the

304
00:19:18.360 --> 00:19:20.220
 process, is it adhering to certain

305
00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:21.920
 styles. But again, you need a

306
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:23.580
 benchmark of styles and in this

307
00:19:23.580 --> 00:19:26.800
 country, you know, we, there's no real

308
00:19:26.800 --> 00:19:29.000
 hard and fast rule about styles. It's,

309
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:30.840
 this whole country is based on, and

310
00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:32.020
 I think I'm not having a go with

311
00:19:32.020 --> 00:19:35.200
 this country, it's more, the more the

312
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.240
 industry and tradition is based on

313
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.720
 ABV. Perfect example, I had two

314
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:38.780
 customers come to the brewery this

315
00:19:38.780 --> 00:19:40.300
 morning and I'm like, help me

316
00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:41.300
 understand what's your plans, blah,

317
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.820
 blah, blah, you know, usual, usual

318
00:19:42.820 --> 00:19:45.180
 chat. And the guy said, I don't know

319
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:46.620
 anything about lager. And I was like,

320
00:19:46.620 --> 00:19:48.520
 well, that's fantastic. You're,

321
00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:49.680
 you're a blank slate for me to tell

322
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:51.320
 you what lager really is or help,

323
00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:53.020
 help you understand what it is. And

324
00:19:53.020 --> 00:19:54.860
 then as you say, other people have

325
00:19:54.860 --> 00:19:56.820
 a preconceived notions of what lager

326
00:19:56.820 --> 00:19:59.100
 is and because they were sold ads

327
00:19:59.100 --> 00:20:00.560
 in the seventies, the eighties, or

328
00:20:00.560 --> 00:20:02.980
 they thought that ex lager is, is,

329
00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:04.720
 is this. So, you know, it's, the

330
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.160
 job is just to, I ask a lot of

331
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.540
 people, you know, what's your

332
00:20:07.540 --> 00:20:08.500
 perceptions of lager? What does

333
00:20:08.500 --> 00:20:10.160
 lager mean to you? You know, and

334
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:11.480
 I bring, I bring customers to the

335
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.040
 brewery and I have 10 people

336
00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:14.480
 sitting in front of me and I ask

337
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:15.580
 them the same question. What does

338
00:20:15.580 --> 00:20:16.760
 lager mean to you? And I will

339
00:20:16.760 --> 00:20:18.540
 get 10 massively different

340
00:20:18.540 --> 00:20:20.280
 varying answers. People will say,

341
00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:21.600
 oh, it represents this. It's

342
00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:23.200
 fizzy yellow liquid. And then I

343
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.320
 can bring out our ice box, you

344
00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:25.460
 know, this is a lager and blow

345
00:20:25.460 --> 00:20:26.660
 their minds, you know. So it's,

346
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:28.820
 it's a very personal thing,

347
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:30.580
 especially for certain drinkers,

348
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:32.440
 which is great. The passion is

349
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:33.900
 there. People are so passionate

350
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:36.100
 about their lagers, but certain

351
00:20:36.100 --> 00:20:37.340
 things about their lagers, they

352
00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:38.480
 might be slightly misinformed.

353
00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:40.740
 And I just want to, you know,

354
00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:42.600
 open the door to what proper

355
00:20:42.600 --> 00:20:44.260
 lager looks like and tastes

356
00:20:44.260 --> 00:20:45.780
 like, and just, you know, help

357
00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:46.980
 guide them through it, I guess.

358
00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:48.600
 Yeah, definitely. I mean, the

359
00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:50.060
 quality of lager brewed in the

360
00:20:50.060 --> 00:20:51.320
 UK has come on massively in

361
00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:53.080
 the last decade. What do you

362
00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:53.940
 think has driven that shift?

363
00:20:54.040 --> 00:20:54.960
 Why do you think more people,

364
00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:56.880
 more independent breweries in

365
00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.160
 particular, are starting to

366
00:20:58.160 --> 00:20:59.400
 brew better lager?

367
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:00.840
 Yeah, that's another good

368
00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:02.080
 question. I think it's, it's

369
00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:05.760
 multifaceted. I think the

370
00:21:05.760 --> 00:21:07.240
 skill level of brewers in this

371
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.140
 country have increased

372
00:21:09.620 --> 00:21:12.260
 exponentially. I think like

373
00:21:12.260 --> 00:21:14.860
 we're making, I would put my

374
00:21:14.860 --> 00:21:16.580
 hands and put my heart on the

375
00:21:16.580 --> 00:21:17.400
 line saying I think some of the

376
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:18.380
 best beer in the world has

377
00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:19.780
 been brewed in the UK right

378
00:21:19.780 --> 00:21:22.000
 now. And so, but obviously that

379
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:22.980
 doesn't happen overnight. I

380
00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:23.740
 think, you know, with the

381
00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.960
 craft beer wave came with

382
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:26.480
 that and brewers trying

383
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:27.340
 different things, trying

384
00:21:27.340 --> 00:21:28.180
 different styles, you know,

385
00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:29.580
 just like any industry, like

386
00:21:29.580 --> 00:21:31.280
 chefing, gardening, you know,

387
00:21:31.280 --> 00:21:31.980
 you go out, you learn

388
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:33.560
 things and you re-incorporate

389
00:21:33.560 --> 00:21:35.020
 that. So that's definitely had a

390
00:21:35.020 --> 00:21:37.160
 massive impact. I think, you

391
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:37.700
 know, it's come with it, it's

392
00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:39.280
 come with it in terms of

393
00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:41.260
 brewing technology, cooling

394
00:21:41.260 --> 00:21:44.040
 technology. You know, I'm not

395
00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:45.020
 a brewer, you probably know

396
00:21:45.020 --> 00:21:46.200
 better than me, but I think

397
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:48.180
 it's, I'm not saying it's

398
00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:49.220
 easy to make lager, it

399
00:21:49.220 --> 00:21:51.160
 really isn't, but the ways

400
00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.260
 in are definitely, it's not

401
00:21:53.260 --> 00:21:54.080
 as scary.

402
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:56.260
 Is there like specific

403
00:21:56.260 --> 00:21:58.000
 markets or types of venues

404
00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.000
 you're targeting more

405
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.660
 aggressively this year or

406
00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:04.160
 next year? What, how would

407
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.500
 you, what sort of venues

408
00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:08.200
 are you going to the most

409
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:09.500
 because you've got more of a

410
00:22:09.500 --> 00:22:10.800
 chance of getting Hitler's

411
00:22:10.800 --> 00:22:11.960
 lager in their venue?

412
00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:13.920
 Yeah, like the, the, the, the

413
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:15.320
 top line as obviously is when

414
00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:16.020
 you're looking at venues,

415
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:16.780
 you're going after the ones

416
00:22:16.780 --> 00:22:18.360
 that, that, that can buy

417
00:22:18.360 --> 00:22:20.440
 your beer, you know, without

418
00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:21.600
 sounding too simplistic. And

419
00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:23.060
 that's definitely it. I think,

420
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.720
 you know, there's lots of

421
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.820
 pubs now that are becoming

422
00:22:26.820 --> 00:22:28.720
 the hubs of, of their

423
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:30.860
 community and, and you kind

424
00:22:30.860 --> 00:22:32.180
 of have to focus on the

425
00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:33.860
 pubs where say there's a

426
00:22:33.860 --> 00:22:35.400
 train strike tomorrow or

427
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.080
 there's a snowstorm. You

428
00:22:37.080 --> 00:22:39.160
 have to be smart and where

429
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:40.740
 you're putting or focusing

430
00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:42.840
 your time so that, you know,

431
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.280
 even if things are happening

432
00:22:44.280 --> 00:22:45.300
 that you can't control,

433
00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:46.280
 there's still people going

434
00:22:46.280 --> 00:22:48.520
 to the local pub. So, you

435
00:22:48.520 --> 00:22:50.180
 know, look, focusing on, on,

436
00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:52.420
 on venues that are seen as

437
00:22:52.420 --> 00:22:53.920
 the place to be without

438
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.960
 sounding too simplistic is,

439
00:22:56.100 --> 00:22:57.440
 is really important. And I

440
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:58.460
 think what's really

441
00:22:58.460 --> 00:22:59.660
 important as well is, is

442
00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:01.160
 focusing on pubs where, or

443
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:02.380
 venues where, you know,

444
00:23:02.600 --> 00:23:03.320
 influential people are going

445
00:23:03.320 --> 00:23:04.640
 to go. So say you go out

446
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:05.680
 for drinks, cause you're a

447
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.180
 man with extreme knowledge

448
00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:09.540
 on beer, but you might have

449
00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:10.860
 friends who just don't care,

450
00:23:10.860 --> 00:23:12.500
 which is great, which I, I

451
00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:14.500
 love. So you go for, you

452
00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:15.400
 know, they go, Aaron,

453
00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:16.060
 where are we going for

454
00:23:16.060 --> 00:23:16.720
 drinks? Do you know your

455
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:18.280
 stuff? And then you'll take

456
00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:19.380
 three, four of your mates to

457
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:20.740
 this amazing pub that's got

458
00:23:20.740 --> 00:23:21.820
 an amazing selection of

459
00:23:21.820 --> 00:23:23.140
 independent breweries. And

460
00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:24.480
 they go, what am I

461
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.320
 drinking? Cause I don't know

462
00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:26.160
 any of this. And you'll

463
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.360
 guide them through it. You

464
00:23:27.360 --> 00:23:28.540
 know, and I think every

465
00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:29.440
 group of friends has a

466
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.880
 Martin, has a Peter that is

467
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:32.260
 going to, you know, help

468
00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:33.720
 them enter into the world of

469
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:35.120
 beer. And so if they

470
00:23:35.120 --> 00:23:37.760
 haven't, they should get

471
00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:38.800
 yourself a Martin and then

472
00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:39.760
 Peter's take you to these

473
00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:40.680
 lovely venues.

474
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.260
 100%. No, the world be a

475
00:23:43.260 --> 00:23:44.480
 better place. Certainly

476
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:45.740
 would. And so, yeah,

477
00:23:45.780 --> 00:23:46.440
 you gotta be, you gotta

478
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:47.640
 know where, where's your

479
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:48.900
 Martin going? Where's your

480
00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:50.100
 Peter going? Make sure

481
00:23:50.100 --> 00:23:51.680
 that you, because you

482
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:52.620
 could, one of their mates

483
00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:53.980
 could go and they'd be

484
00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:55.380
 drinking, enter, insert

485
00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:56.980
 macro average lager here

486
00:23:56.980 --> 00:23:57.800
 all their lives. And then

487
00:23:57.800 --> 00:23:58.580
 they go and have a pint

488
00:23:58.580 --> 00:23:59.500
 of Pillar's Hellas, a

489
00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:00.200
 Pillar's Pilsner. And they

490
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:01.880
 go, oh my God, I didn't

491
00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:03.080
 realize lager tastes like

492
00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:04.840
 this, you know? Well, thanks

493
00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:06.720
 to you, you've got someone

494
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.740
 new in the business. So

495
00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:09.600
 that's kind of, you know,

496
00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:10.500
 you just got to be smart

497
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:11.560
 and you got to do your

498
00:24:11.560 --> 00:24:12.400
 research and understand

499
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.340
 where people are going.

500
00:24:13.540 --> 00:24:14.440
 And then the other probably

501
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:15.440
 Avenue we're focusing

502
00:24:17.580 --> 00:24:18.620
 because, well, there's

503
00:24:18.620 --> 00:24:20.080
 two reasons why we're

504
00:24:20.080 --> 00:24:21.100
 going after these kind

505
00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:22.360
 of venues. I focus a lot

506
00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:24.520
 on restaurants. One, I'm

507
00:24:24.520 --> 00:24:25.380
 an absolute massive

508
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:26.500
 foodie. I'm a failed

509
00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:29.500
 chef and I love just

510
00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:30.540
 the chaos of restaurants,

511
00:24:30.540 --> 00:24:31.500
 but also the controlled

512
00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:32.720
 chaos of restaurants and

513
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:33.880
 my wife, we go out for

514
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:35.540
 meals as often as we can

515
00:24:35.540 --> 00:24:36.660
 because fortunately we're

516
00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:37.900
 in London, so we have

517
00:24:37.900 --> 00:24:38.760
 a plethora of choices.

518
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.240
 And so I want to work

519
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:40.980
 with restaurants that

520
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:41.740
 where I can hopefully get

521
00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:42.920
 a discount or a free meal.

522
00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:43.860
 I'm not going to lie,

523
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:45.400
 but also these are

524
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:46.160
 the restaurants that

525
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:47.680
 won't be tied, you know?

526
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:49.260
 They'll go, okay, I'm

527
00:24:49.260 --> 00:24:50.540
 opening my second site

528
00:24:50.540 --> 00:24:51.620
 or I'm opening my first

529
00:24:51.620 --> 00:24:53.100
 site. What's, you know,

530
00:24:53.100 --> 00:24:53.740
 I've got an amazing

531
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.340
 argument sake. I'm going

532
00:24:56.340 --> 00:24:57.600
 to have the best Hong

533
00:24:57.600 --> 00:24:59.160
 Kong style food in London

534
00:24:59.160 --> 00:24:59.720
 and I'm going to have

535
00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:01.080
 amazing, amazing

536
00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:02.500
 cocktails, amazing wine,

537
00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:04.900
 you know, a lot of them

538
00:25:04.900 --> 00:25:06.100
 now these, these

539
00:25:06.100 --> 00:25:07.160
 restaurateurs, these

540
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:08.260
 managers are going, well,

541
00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:09.620
 we need every element

542
00:25:09.620 --> 00:25:10.920
 of our business to be

543
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:12.020
 the best it can be in

544
00:25:12.020 --> 00:25:13.000
 order to get people here

545
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:13.580
 because London's

546
00:25:13.580 --> 00:25:14.520
 competitive, you know,

547
00:25:14.580 --> 00:25:15.300
 and people might not

548
00:25:15.300 --> 00:25:16.000
 be spending, so they

549
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.200
 want every element to

550
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:18.220
 be as good as possible.

551
00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:18.940
 So they're like, well,

552
00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:19.660
 who's making the

553
00:25:19.660 --> 00:25:20.540
 best lager or who's

554
00:25:20.540 --> 00:25:21.420
 making the best pale,

555
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.140
 you know, and they're,

556
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:24.240
 they're, they're more

557
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.320
 embracing of product,

558
00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:27.340
 less so price.

559
00:25:27.340 --> 00:25:28.100
 Obviously they want to

560
00:25:28.100 --> 00:25:29.060
 go price, but for them,

561
00:25:29.060 --> 00:25:29.940
 it's about the whole

562
00:25:29.940 --> 00:25:30.740
 holistic experience

563
00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:31.380
 for the customer.

564
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:32.940
 So who's going to help me,

565
00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:33.480
 you know, give that

566
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:34.080
 to my customer.

567
00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:35.240
 You know, unfortunately,

568
00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:36.960
 we've built a nice reputation

569
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.120
 where people go, well,

570
00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:39.160
 we're the lager people.

571
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:40.360
 Yeah, that makes sense

572
00:25:40.360 --> 00:25:41.020
 to be working with pillars.

573
00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:42.420
 So focusing on that

574
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:44.260
 definitely is a big part

575
00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:45.760
 and yeah, many to get

576
00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:46.400
 some free meals.

577
00:25:46.980 --> 00:25:48.160
 What innovations and trends

578
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:49.620
 in the lager brewing

579
00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:50.960
 world are exciting

580
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:51.980
 you the most right now

581
00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:53.340
 and how is that

582
00:25:53.340 --> 00:25:53.900
 going to kind of,

583
00:25:54.020 --> 00:25:55.280
 how might that influence

584
00:25:55.280 --> 00:25:56.740
 how you sell in the future?

585
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:57.540
 Yeah, I'm going to sound

586
00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:58.620
 like quite a nerd here.

587
00:25:59.560 --> 00:26:00.520
 I love nerdiness.

588
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:04.760
 I think it's definitely

589
00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:06.020
 a knock on from

590
00:26:06.020 --> 00:26:06.480
 from what's happening

591
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:06.940
 with Guinness

592
00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:09.660
 and certain breweries

593
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.080
 like Budvar, for example,

594
00:26:11.260 --> 00:26:13.400
 I think, and maybe Bohem as well,

595
00:26:14.100 --> 00:26:14.360
 understanding

596
00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:16.780
 and it's like

597
00:26:16.780 --> 00:26:18.060
 trying to tell someone

598
00:26:18.060 --> 00:26:19.660
 specifically a certain

599
00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:20.880
 demographic in the UK,

600
00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:21.600
 trying to tell them

601
00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:23.560
 that the world is indeed flat

602
00:26:23.560 --> 00:26:26.080
 or, you know, trying to

603
00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:27.060
 completely change

604
00:26:27.060 --> 00:26:27.640
 their mind or something.

605
00:26:27.860 --> 00:26:28.880
 But it's the poor,

606
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.040
 the poor of a lager,

607
00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:31.640
 you know, pouring a lager

608
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:33.360
 with a huge chunky

609
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:35.260
 foamy thick head.

610
00:26:35.560 --> 00:26:36.600
 It's a side pole.

611
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.400
 Yeah, exactly.

612
00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:39.960
 And obviously we're not

613
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:41.060
 a Czech brewery,

614
00:26:41.300 --> 00:26:43.060
 but the or even Germany,

615
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:43.760
 you go to Germany

616
00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:44.960
 and you got a Stein

617
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:45.800
 and a brewery

618
00:26:45.800 --> 00:26:46.320
 and it's going to have

619
00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:48.320
 this lovely, rich, foamy head.

620
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:50.100
 I think that's an innovation

621
00:26:50.100 --> 00:26:51.160
 that, you know,

622
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:51.940
 Budvar doing great

623
00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:53.260
 works on we're doing it.

624
00:26:53.280 --> 00:26:55.700
 So I had a perfect poor training

625
00:26:55.700 --> 00:26:57.080
 as part of all my new installs

626
00:26:57.080 --> 00:26:57.860
 and I had some

627
00:26:57.860 --> 00:26:59.000
 with the new restaurant

628
00:26:59.000 --> 00:26:59.720
 last week

629
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:00.900
 and I saw on their Instagram

630
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:02.380
 that they'd had a post of it

631
00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:03.680
 and that the owner

632
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:04.300
 of the business,

633
00:27:04.300 --> 00:27:05.500
 because it was their soft lunch

634
00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:06.360
 and he was actually doing

635
00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:07.480
 the poor exactly how I said.

636
00:27:07.560 --> 00:27:08.260
 So he had this lovely,

637
00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:09.100
 thick head in the beer

638
00:27:09.100 --> 00:27:10.360
 and I was like a proud parent.

639
00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:12.500
 I wasn't even like

640
00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:13.780
 I didn't even like force him.

641
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:15.040
 I was like he was

642
00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:16.000
 intrigued at how to do it

643
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:16.520
 and I show them

644
00:27:16.520 --> 00:27:17.760
 and in terms of how you pour

645
00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:19.000
 and keeping the glassware clean.

646
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.500
 So I think to come back

647
00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:20.920
 to your question,

648
00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:22.620
 the innovation for me

649
00:27:22.620 --> 00:27:24.560
 is getting super nerdy

650
00:27:24.560 --> 00:27:26.060
 with the poor and the glassware

651
00:27:26.060 --> 00:27:27.820
 because it's so important

652
00:27:27.820 --> 00:27:28.680
 and I think it's kind of

653
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:29.580
 somewhat been forgotten

654
00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:31.600
 as pubs are struggling to survive

655
00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:32.760
 and maybe training budgets

656
00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:33.940
 are reduced.

657
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:35.680
 But I speak with Omar

658
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:37.080
 and I've actually got a call

659
00:27:37.080 --> 00:27:38.620
 meeting after this

660
00:27:39.340 --> 00:27:40.040
 with someone

661
00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:41.200
 who's going to help us ensure

662
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:42.760
 that the pours

663
00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:43.500
 and the glassware

664
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:44.660
 and we're giving all our customers

665
00:27:44.660 --> 00:27:45.780
 the support as possible

666
00:27:45.780 --> 00:27:46.980
 because at the end

667
00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:48.220
 it's all about the customer

668
00:27:48.220 --> 00:27:49.480
 having an amazing experience

669
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:50.480
 because they're going to be paying

670
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:51.140
 a little bit more.

671
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:52.580
 You can go

672
00:27:52.580 --> 00:27:53.480
 and you can go to your spoons

673
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:54.500
 and get your cheap lager

674
00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:55.360
 which is absolutely fine.

675
00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:56.560
 But if you want to go

676
00:27:56.560 --> 00:27:57.140
 get your lager

677
00:27:57.140 --> 00:28:00.420
 that's six, seven, who knows?

678
00:28:00.540 --> 00:28:00.980
 Eight pounds.

679
00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:01.600
 You want to make sure

680
00:28:01.600 --> 00:28:03.020
 the whole experience is amazing.

681
00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:05.020
 And so because you look

682
00:28:05.020 --> 00:28:05.700
 at the damager

683
00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:07.360
 and various other Guinness pubs,

684
00:28:07.360 --> 00:28:09.060
 people are treating their Guinness

685
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.440
 world-changing.

686
00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:13.060
 It's just because

687
00:28:13.060 --> 00:28:14.180
 they're looking after the details

688
00:28:14.180 --> 00:28:15.720
 and that's what I'd love to see

689
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.860
 kind of come into the lager world.

690
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:18.100
 It's like when you go

691
00:28:18.100 --> 00:28:18.620
 into a restaurant

692
00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:19.740
 and you have a meal

693
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:20.660
 and if it's all laid out

694
00:28:20.660 --> 00:28:21.760
 or it looks lovely,

695
00:28:22.260 --> 00:28:23.980
 automatically your brain's going to tell you

696
00:28:23.980 --> 00:28:25.060
 this is going to taste good.

697
00:28:25.300 --> 00:28:26.300
 If it looks inviting,

698
00:28:26.300 --> 00:28:27.680
 it's going to taste inviting

699
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.380
 before it's even hit your taste buds.

700
00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.620
 And that's key.

701
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:33.680
 So what would you say

702
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:34.780
 talking about food?

703
00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:37.060
 What's your go-to pillars lager

704
00:28:37.060 --> 00:28:38.040
 and food pairing

705
00:28:38.620 --> 00:28:41.280
 after a long day out on the sales?

706
00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:43.060
 You've been out of like

707
00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:44.020
 all around London.

708
00:28:44.900 --> 00:28:45.800
 You want to come home

709
00:28:45.800 --> 00:28:48.000
 or go out whatever one

710
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:49.620
 would be your ideal pairing.

711
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:50.920
 Well, yeah.

712
00:28:51.340 --> 00:28:52.320
 I know I was thinking about this.

713
00:28:53.580 --> 00:28:54.740
 There's so many.

714
00:28:54.820 --> 00:28:55.900
 I think for me,

715
00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:57.720
 it's a combination of things.

716
00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:59.040
 I feel like all my answers

717
00:28:59.040 --> 00:28:59.860
 is a combination of things.

718
00:28:59.940 --> 00:29:00.940
 There's a cop out,

719
00:29:01.020 --> 00:29:01.880
 it's kind of politician.

720
00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:04.740
 I think one restaurant

721
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:07.420
 that really sits nicely

722
00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:08.360
 with me in my heart

723
00:29:08.360 --> 00:29:09.480
 is Mangal too

724
00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:11.340
 in kind of Stoke Mewington, Doulston.

725
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:13.320
 They do incredible,

726
00:29:13.320 --> 00:29:15.880
 incredible elevated Turkish food.

727
00:29:16.040 --> 00:29:16.960
 It's a family-run business.

728
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.400
 And I think having a really well-produced,

729
00:29:20.760 --> 00:29:22.020
 crisp, super delicious,

730
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:23.800
 easy drinking lager alongside

731
00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:25.300
 charcoal meats,

732
00:29:25.800 --> 00:29:27.380
 or even charcoal veg.

733
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:29.340
 It's for me,

734
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:30.400
 it's the perfect combination.

735
00:29:31.040 --> 00:29:31.920
 So the three brothers,

736
00:29:32.020 --> 00:29:33.780
 Omar, Sami and Eamon,

737
00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:35.780
 they are of Iraqi heritage.

738
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.920
 And so every year

739
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:38.060
 we have the pillars barbecue

740
00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:39.480
 for the staff in summer.

741
00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:42.860
 And they bring all their mini barbecues out

742
00:29:42.860 --> 00:29:44.700
 and they're just making incredible meat

743
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:47.160
 and the sun and some vegetables,

744
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:48.400
 just cooking it over charcoal

745
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:49.820
 that's been marinated

746
00:29:49.820 --> 00:29:50.780
 for a couple of days.

747
00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:51.940
 Omar's an amazing chef.

748
00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:53.440
 And Gavin as well was doing it

749
00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:54.420
 as well with some of the meats

750
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:55.780
 and just getting some really,

751
00:29:55.780 --> 00:29:57.200
 really good food,

752
00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.380
 well-marinated over the coals

753
00:29:59.380 --> 00:30:02.460
 and then just a really crisp coal pint.

754
00:30:02.820 --> 00:30:04.960
 It's like there's a few things better.

755
00:30:05.800 --> 00:30:07.460
 Things that memories are made of.

756
00:30:09.120 --> 00:30:10.260
 You never forget that day

757
00:30:10.260 --> 00:30:12.380
 of drinking beautiful lager,

758
00:30:12.540 --> 00:30:13.420
 beautiful food.

759
00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:16.020
 And you'd want it again,

760
00:30:16.080 --> 00:30:16.320
 you'd be like,

761
00:30:16.360 --> 00:30:17.180
 I've got to do that again.

762
00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:19.420
 We've done it now every year

763
00:30:19.420 --> 00:30:20.240
 for the past three years

764
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.420
 with all the team and it's great.

765
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:22.720
 Everyone's just like,

766
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:25.320
 brewers finally get to get out of the brewery

767
00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:28.620
 and we just set up an area outside the tap room

768
00:30:28.620 --> 00:30:30.800
 and we just kind of take over the street,

769
00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:31.900
 put out a load of tables,

770
00:30:32.040 --> 00:30:32.660
 load of food

771
00:30:32.660 --> 00:30:34.360
 and then everybody's mingling

772
00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:35.600
 and it's just, it's just class.

773
00:30:35.840 --> 00:30:36.640
 Yeah, lovely.

774
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.800
 I like a really nice crisp lager

775
00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:40.520
 with an Indian food.

776
00:30:40.820 --> 00:30:42.920
 I think the balance between the spice

777
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:45.140
 and the crisp lager is,

778
00:30:46.620 --> 00:30:48.620
 yeah, that's my food pairing

779
00:30:48.620 --> 00:30:51.900
 if anyone wants that as their 2p.

780
00:30:51.900 --> 00:30:54.680
 No, actually that was my meeting this morning

781
00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:57.620
 is with an Indian restaurant

782
00:30:57.620 --> 00:30:59.180
 but they actually do like Indian pizzas

783
00:30:59.180 --> 00:31:00.820
 and he was like trying our pills in there

784
00:31:00.820 --> 00:31:01.140
 and he's like,

785
00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:02.700
 oh, this could be perfect with our pizzas.

786
00:31:03.060 --> 00:31:04.800
 But yeah, so yeah, you're dead right.

787
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:05.420
 Yeah.

788
00:31:05.580 --> 00:31:06.700
 What's your most memorable

789
00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:09.280
 or unusual place that you've sold pillars to?

790
00:31:09.820 --> 00:31:11.700
 Yeah, it was actually last week

791
00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:14.840
 and it was an inbound that came in

792
00:31:15.740 --> 00:31:16.480
 so organically,

793
00:31:16.540 --> 00:31:17.700
 which is always the nicest

794
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:19.340
 when someone you don't have to go

795
00:31:19.340 --> 00:31:22.020
 you know, give them the hard sell.

796
00:31:22.180 --> 00:31:23.320
 They already knew who we were

797
00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:24.240
 and they tried our beers

798
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.900
 and it was a fishmongers

799
00:31:26.900 --> 00:31:27.980
 and I was like, cool.

800
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:28.880
 I was like, all right,

801
00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:29.740
 we'll see how this goes in.

802
00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:30.560
 So I rock up

803
00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:32.720
 and it was no ordinary fishmongers

804
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.780
 and the best thing about

805
00:31:33.780 --> 00:31:35.000
 I knew it was a good fishmonger

806
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:35.960
 is when you walk in

807
00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:36.720
 and you see all the fish

808
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:37.880
 but it doesn't smell of fish

809
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:38.500
 you're like, oh, well,

810
00:31:38.500 --> 00:31:39.560
 this is proper fresh fish

811
00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:40.800
 but it's also a Gnelly

812
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:42.840
 and I was like, okay, cool, nice.

813
00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:43.760
 So you're selling some bottles

814
00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.420
 and wines and tinned sardines

815
00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:46.280
 and stuff like that

816
00:31:46.280 --> 00:31:48.620
 and I was chatting away to an amazing guy

817
00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:50.900
 and a lovely man, Bob

818
00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:51.860
 and he was telling me

819
00:31:51.860 --> 00:31:53.100
 they have little tables outside

820
00:31:53.100 --> 00:31:53.980
 and he was just like, oh,

821
00:31:54.040 --> 00:31:54.600
 do you want to eat?

822
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:55.140
 Do you have lunch?

823
00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:56.080
 I was like, oh, I just had lunch.

824
00:31:56.100 --> 00:31:56.960
 He's like, well, you're an idiot.

825
00:31:57.080 --> 00:31:57.980
 I was about to make some

826
00:31:57.980 --> 00:31:59.000
 for you and I was like,

827
00:31:59.080 --> 00:31:59.960
 okay, well, what's going on?

828
00:32:00.220 --> 00:32:01.140
 And his chef comes up

829
00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:03.380
 with a massive plate of sea bream

830
00:32:03.380 --> 00:32:04.720
 with like a chimichurri sauce

831
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:05.600
 and just some like

832
00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:06.820
 roasted tomatoes beside it.

833
00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:07.840
 He's like, please have some.

834
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:09.040
 So anyway, we sat down

835
00:32:09.040 --> 00:32:10.780
 before I even told him about pillars.

836
00:32:10.820 --> 00:32:12.860
 We sat down, had half the sea bream

837
00:32:12.860 --> 00:32:14.100
 each, which was incredible.

838
00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:15.500
 I was like, why does this taste so good?

839
00:32:15.520 --> 00:32:16.280
 He's like, well, at least

840
00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:17.300
 he came off the boat this morning.

841
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.040
 And so then we went downstairs

842
00:32:21.040 --> 00:32:22.480
 and underneath the fishmongers

843
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:23.600
 was a lounge bar.

844
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:25.860
 I was like, okay, this is really cool.

845
00:32:26.020 --> 00:32:28.180
 And it was a kind of cocktail lounge bar

846
00:32:28.180 --> 00:32:29.500
 and it was like half designed

847
00:32:29.500 --> 00:32:31.360
 by his partner who was into jewelry

848
00:32:31.360 --> 00:32:31.640
 and stuff.

849
00:32:31.660 --> 00:32:34.240
 So it was all this weird kind of

850
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:35.840
 weird stuff on the walls

851
00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:37.040
 and it was so odd.

852
00:32:37.260 --> 00:32:38.800
 And then we went back upstairs

853
00:32:38.800 --> 00:32:39.860
 and he wanted to get keg beer

854
00:32:39.860 --> 00:32:41.700
 and then in comes his two twin daughters

855
00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:43.500
 who are also working in the fishmonger.

856
00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:44.460
 They came in from school

857
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:45.380
 and then put on their aprons

858
00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:46.420
 and started helping customers

859
00:32:46.420 --> 00:32:47.200
 get their fish

860
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:49.480
 and then found out that

861
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:51.820
 he's Kat Stevens' nephew.

862
00:32:52.040 --> 00:32:53.040
 It was, anyway, it was just

863
00:32:53.040 --> 00:32:54.340
 he was just an amazing character

864
00:32:54.340 --> 00:32:56.140
 and the venue was like such a part

865
00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:56.640
 of the community.

866
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:57.840
 People were coming in and saying,

867
00:32:58.160 --> 00:32:59.360
 oh yeah, what's the crack?

868
00:32:59.400 --> 00:32:59.820
 Where's it going?

869
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:01.040
 What's happening with this?

870
00:33:01.120 --> 00:33:01.680
 How's the kids?

871
00:33:02.020 --> 00:33:02.920
 Oh yeah, I'm off on holiday.

872
00:33:03.060 --> 00:33:04.540
 And then another person came in

873
00:33:04.540 --> 00:33:05.700
 and they were waiting to get their fish

874
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:07.140
 and then, oh, I might get a beer.

875
00:33:07.520 --> 00:33:08.340
 And they were just sitting down

876
00:33:08.340 --> 00:33:10.020
 and it was just like this beautiful

877
00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:11.200
 hubbub of people.

878
00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:12.300
 It was amazing.

879
00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:14.020
 And it was like all of the fishmongers

880
00:33:14.020 --> 00:33:16.280
 that also has a cocktail bar downstairs.

881
00:33:16.280 --> 00:33:18.760
 I was like, this is what hospitality

882
00:33:18.760 --> 00:33:19.420
 is all about.

883
00:33:20.620 --> 00:33:21.480
 And it was a family-run

884
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:22.800
 independent business as well.

885
00:33:22.840 --> 00:33:23.980
 So it really aligned with us

886
00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:25.300
 and I was just like, yeah.

887
00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:27.700
 So I think from just looking

888
00:33:27.700 --> 00:33:28.960
 like a fishmongers on the outside,

889
00:33:29.040 --> 00:33:29.900
 it was also a restaurant,

890
00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:31.920
 a cocktail bar, a community hub

891
00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:34.500
 and your man was just absolutely hilarious.

892
00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:35.220
 He was great.

893
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.320
 And finding out that Kat Stevens' uncle

894
00:33:37.320 --> 00:33:38.160
 was even better.

895
00:33:39.020 --> 00:33:41.300
 So yeah, it was super memorable.

896
00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:43.600
 And yeah, I've told many people

897
00:33:43.600 --> 00:33:44.320
 about this place since

898
00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:45.100
 and it was only last week.

899
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:46.120
 And yeah, we're going to be working

900
00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:47.220
 with them and I'm going to help them

901
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:49.940
 set up their first draft beer dispense.

902
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:51.060
 So it's going to be a bit of a journey

903
00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:52.100
 for us to go through together,

904
00:33:52.100 --> 00:33:53.300
 but it's going to be fun.

905
00:33:53.580 --> 00:33:54.340
 But what's this place called?

906
00:33:54.600 --> 00:33:56.280
 It's called Bourns Fishmongers.

907
00:33:56.280 --> 00:33:57.320
 It's in Belsize Park.

908
00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.980
 If anyone's around that park,

909
00:33:59.280 --> 00:33:59.860
 part of the world.

910
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:01.420
 So it's in Belsize Park Village,

911
00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:02.620
 really, really nice part of the world.

912
00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:04.440
 I was just happy to walk around there

913
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:05.520
 and just look at these huge houses

914
00:34:05.520 --> 00:34:06.800
 that I'll never be able to afford.

915
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:09.719
 But we all do that.

916
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.760
 I was like, holy, how do people.

917
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:16.520
 So it's Bourns Fishmongers.

918
00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:18.260
 They've got our bottles in now,

919
00:34:18.260 --> 00:34:19.780
 but we're literally in the process

920
00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:21.100
 of sorting out a little linden machine

921
00:34:21.100 --> 00:34:22.600
 for them and sourcing all the line

922
00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:23.179
 cleaning and everything.

923
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.480
 So hopefully we'll have some delicious pine soon.

924
00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:27.219
 That's amazing.

925
00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:28.520
 Yeah, that's great.

926
00:34:29.020 --> 00:34:30.219
 Get yourself down there.

927
00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:32.000
 Enjoy some pillars and some great fish.

928
00:34:32.260 --> 00:34:33.080
 Yeah, the fish is amazing.

929
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:39.280
 So finally, final question of the day.

930
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:41.440
 It's been absolutely brilliant chatting

931
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.199
 about pillars and lager

932
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.219
 and how great lager is in the UK

933
00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:49.920
 compared to the others, should we say.

934
00:34:51.120 --> 00:34:54.239
 So finally, what would you like the audience

935
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.900
 to take away about why great lager matters

936
00:34:56.900 --> 00:35:00.360
 and why pillars is worth seeking out

937
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.020
 and trying if they haven't already?

938
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.840
 Yeah, I think first and foremost,

939
00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:06.780
 and I'm sure everybody will say this,

940
00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:08.510
 but I wouldn't be here

941
00:35:09.180 --> 00:35:11.600
 working for pillars if I didn't think so.

942
00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:13.560
 Taking everything I've said off the table,

943
00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:16.240
 the product that the brewers make is incredible.

944
00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:20.720
 Employ all the audience to come to the brewery

945
00:35:20.720 --> 00:35:21.940
 or get in touch with me

946
00:35:21.940 --> 00:35:22.920
 and I'll send them some samples.

947
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.440
 I think the beer that the brewers make

948
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:26.980
 that is so good.

949
00:35:28.220 --> 00:35:30.480
 If you like good lager, that's one good reason.

950
00:35:30.740 --> 00:35:33.820
 I think what also is a good reason

951
00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:36.640
 to reach out is we can change

952
00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:38.540
 people's perceptions and you've touched on it

953
00:35:38.540 --> 00:35:39.680
 with some other great lager breweries

954
00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:41.140
 in the UK, change people's perceptions

955
00:35:41.140 --> 00:35:44.400
 of lager and we'll be starting a new journey

956
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.900
 maybe like we did back in the day

957
00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:49.120
 when we realized that if you dry hop a beer

958
00:35:49.120 --> 00:35:50.240
 it can taste like X

959
00:35:50.240 --> 00:35:52.500
 or if you use this yeast strain

960
00:35:53.060 --> 00:35:54.500
 it's hazy but it's delicious

961
00:35:54.500 --> 00:35:56.520
 and I think this is a new journey

962
00:35:56.520 --> 00:35:57.400
 that people can go on

963
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.840
 and I think I might be damaging my CV

964
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.260
 in the future but these massive breweries,

965
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:08.240
 the profits are going to a certain

966
00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:10.140
 very small group of people

967
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:12.240
 more often than not off shore

968
00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:15.180
 but if you're buying from your independent

969
00:36:15.180 --> 00:36:16.980
 lager brewery or brewery in general

970
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:19.960
 you're helping us hire more people

971
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.180
 which in terms means we're going to buy

972
00:36:22.620 --> 00:36:24.720
 more from our suppliers down the road

973
00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:26.100
 or help our estate out

974
00:36:26.100 --> 00:36:27.260
 or help out our communities

975
00:36:27.260 --> 00:36:29.520
 do more amazing charity events.

976
00:36:30.040 --> 00:36:32.300
 The effect of working with a good independent brewery

977
00:36:32.300 --> 00:36:34.480
 the knock-on of that is huge

978
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.640
 when do cores need another zero

979
00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:38.900
 at the end of their profits this year?

980
00:36:38.900 --> 00:36:39.540
 I don't know.

981
00:36:39.540 --> 00:36:41.480
 It's a very rhetorical question.

982
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.400
 So I think give UK lager a chance

983
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.880
 because it's like us

984
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.080
 you talk about Utopia

985
00:36:48.080 --> 00:36:49.340
 and you can talk about Bravebrook

986
00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:50.500
 you could talk about

987
00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:52.180
 so many amazing lager breweries

988
00:36:53.660 --> 00:36:57.820
 you know there's so much space

989
00:36:57.820 --> 00:36:59.620
 out there for incredible UK lager

990
00:36:59.620 --> 00:37:01.820
 and yeah give it a try

991
00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:03.500
 because you'd be very surprised

992
00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:05.580
 and you'll be doing good

993
00:37:05.580 --> 00:37:06.880
 not only for your customers

994
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.860
 to give them a better product

995
00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:08.920
 but you'll be doing good

996
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:10.720
 to help support you know our industry

997
00:37:10.720 --> 00:37:12.380
 and help us support our people

998
00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:14.400
 and the knock-on effect of that

999
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.880
 rather than you know going to a big boardroom

1000
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:19.160
 and a CEO in Amsterdam you know.

1001
00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:20.440
 Yeah for sure.

1002
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.040
 So a quick thing that I want to touch on

1003
00:37:23.660 --> 00:37:25.440
 is there a reason why

1004
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:27.140
 Pillars only operates in bottles

1005
00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:27.820
 and not cans?

1006
00:37:29.540 --> 00:37:31.380
 Is it to do with flavour?

1007
00:37:31.640 --> 00:37:34.060
 Is it the way you store it?

1008
00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:35.680
 I mean is there a reason

1009
00:37:35.680 --> 00:37:37.860
 why you don't do it in cans and just bottles?

1010
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:41.280
 So yeah so the guys did it

1011
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.680
 we did a rebrand in 2020

1012
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:45.440
 and with the rebrand came a new font

1013
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:46.800
 came a new identity

1014
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.240
 and with that also came a new head brewer

1015
00:37:49.240 --> 00:37:51.860
 who was extremely talented

1016
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.660
 and with him Marius is his name

1017
00:37:54.660 --> 00:37:56.020
 amazing brewer

1018
00:37:56.020 --> 00:37:59.220
 he ensured that we had the product to back up

1019
00:37:59.220 --> 00:38:01.120
 we will have the word we talked about earlier

1020
00:38:01.120 --> 00:38:02.200
 premium you know

1021
00:38:02.200 --> 00:38:03.640
 because premium is something

1022
00:38:03.640 --> 00:38:05.340
 that can be easily marketable

1023
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:07.780
 to make sure to make a product more expensive

1024
00:38:07.780 --> 00:38:08.900
 even though it's the same product

1025
00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:10.000
 the non-premium version

1026
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.160
 so we wanted to have a brand

1027
00:38:12.160 --> 00:38:14.060
 and to have a vessel that represented that

1028
00:38:16.520 --> 00:38:19.000
 because yeah I think most

1029
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.340
 likes of Brew Dog, Beaver Town, Camden

1030
00:38:22.340 --> 00:38:24.340
 you know they very much normalized

1031
00:38:25.520 --> 00:38:26.700
 hoppy beers and cans

1032
00:38:26.700 --> 00:38:28.300
 when you know not many people

1033
00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:29.260
 were doing it back in the day

1034
00:38:30.060 --> 00:38:32.160
 but with Larger we wanted to ensure

1035
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:34.640
 that one with our brand

1036
00:38:34.640 --> 00:38:35.440
 we wanted to have the vessel

1037
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:36.300
 that represented that

1038
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:37.920
 I wish I'd have a bottle here to be honest

1039
00:38:39.100 --> 00:38:39.980
 that showcases

1040
00:38:39.980 --> 00:38:41.220
 because we have a few customers

1041
00:38:41.220 --> 00:38:41.620
 that don't know

1042
00:38:41.620 --> 00:38:43.040
 we have quite a stubby unique bottle

1043
00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:45.160
 and so we wanted to

1044
00:38:45.160 --> 00:38:46.000
 with our branding

1045
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.980
 it looked better on the bottle

1046
00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:48.680
 from an aesthetic point of view

1047
00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:50.160
 and then also as we wanted to grow

1048
00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:51.340
 into the restaurant world

1049
00:38:51.340 --> 00:38:52.280
 and the hotel world

1050
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.580
 and stand out you know

1051
00:38:54.580 --> 00:38:56.660
 on a shelf in a bottle shop

1052
00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:57.840
 Barton's helped

1053
00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.680
 and it's funny they're still called bottle shops

1054
00:38:59.680 --> 00:39:01.200
 even though 90% of it is cans

1055
00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:03.120
 yeah it's true yeah

1056
00:39:03.120 --> 00:39:03.840
 can shop

1057
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:05.940
 and so we wanted to

1058
00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:07.040
 it doesn't have the same effect

1059
00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:08.300
 does it? Can shop, bottle shop

1060
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:09.640
 can shop

1061
00:39:09.640 --> 00:39:11.460
 I would always say bottle shop as well

1062
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:13.680
 yeah can shop seems quite the derogatory

1063
00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:14.200
 it's a bottle shop

1064
00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:16.800
 anyway it's more how it rolls off the tongue

1065
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.980
 and so yeah we just wanted to stand out

1066
00:39:18.980 --> 00:39:19.880
 in line with the brand

1067
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:21.900
 and the rebrand that we did

1068
00:39:23.160 --> 00:39:24.480
 and so yeah

1069
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.760
 it wasn't a smart decision logistically

1070
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:28.140
 and because those bottles

1071
00:39:28.140 --> 00:39:29.520
 were one hard to source

1072
00:39:29.520 --> 00:39:30.880
 and two hard to bottle

1073
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:32.120
 in bottling lines

1074
00:39:32.120 --> 00:39:32.860
 most bottling lines

1075
00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:34.580
 are set for your standard long neck

1076
00:39:34.580 --> 00:39:38.340
 or your 500ml

1077
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:39.880
 you know bishop's finger style bottles

1078
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.020
 we've made things hard

1079
00:39:42.020 --> 00:39:43.800
 but you know if it's not

1080
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:44.440
 going to be a little bit hard

1081
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:45.480
 then what's the point?

1082
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:47.780
 Sets you apart as well doesn't it

1083
00:39:47.780 --> 00:39:48.660
 from other brands

1084
00:39:48.660 --> 00:39:49.780
 100% yeah exactly

1085
00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:51.120
 that's what the main thing was

1086
00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:52.600
 is it's make you

1087
00:39:52.600 --> 00:39:53.960
 have your own separate little niche

1088
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.860
 yeah yeah that's amazing

1089
00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:57.380
 well that's a great little story

1090
00:39:57.380 --> 00:39:58.000
 to finish on

1091
00:39:59.240 --> 00:40:01.860
 Pete has been amazing talking to you

1092
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:03.220
 we've pop a ramble on

1093
00:40:03.220 --> 00:40:05.680
 and I've enjoyed everything

1094
00:40:08.080 --> 00:40:10.520
 we've I always enjoy a good ramble

1095
00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:11.900
 I love a good ramble

1096
00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:14.380
 but yeah I do to everyone listening

1097
00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:16.040
 and please check out Peter's

1098
00:40:16.040 --> 00:40:17.680
 have a look on their website

1099
00:40:18.620 --> 00:40:19.740
 check your untaps

1100
00:40:19.740 --> 00:40:20.820
 see where it's being served

1101
00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:21.840
 and check out the lagers

1102
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.560
 because they are absolutely amazing

1103
00:40:23.560 --> 00:40:26.330
 I do implore you to check them out

1104
00:40:27.740 --> 00:40:29.660
 yeah Peter thanks for coming on the show

1105
00:40:29.660 --> 00:40:31.340
 and yeah we'll

1106
00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:33.780
 catch you again in another couple of weeks

1107
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:35.460
 for our next guest

1108
00:40:35.460 --> 00:40:36.300
 who could it be?

1109
00:40:36.500 --> 00:40:37.060
 we'll see

1110
00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:38.020
 and until then

1111
00:40:38.020 --> 00:40:38.740
 catch you later

1112
00:40:38.740 --> 00:40:39.400
 cheers