Building an Independent Brewery on the Isle of Man

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 I met Nick, we entered into a relationship and he said to me on our first date,

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 he said that his dream was to open a microbrewery.

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 And I thought, well, yeah, that sounds like a bit of me.

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 Hello and welcome to The Beer Repchats with, and I'm delighted today to be joined by Elizabeth,

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 co-founder of Karoo. Elizabeth, thanks for joining the show.

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 It's great to be here, Martin, from the not-so-sunny Isle of Man today, unfortunately.

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 It's not so sunny here in London either.

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 No, back to storms again. We had one day of reprise yesterday.

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 We flew back from Liverpool and it was the most textbook, beautiful flight ever.

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 But yeah, back to wind and rain, unfortunately.

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 Yeah, we got that for foreseeable future, I think, until spring finally arrives.

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 I can't wait for spring to arrive. We need a bit of heat and sun into the room.

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 We do.

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 Yeah, so first off, I'm going to start off with, I read that Karoo literally began

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 around your kitchen table. What was the moment where you thought,

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 you and Nick thought, let's start a brewery?

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 So it goes back to about five years ago now. We met tail end of the pandemic.

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 It was kind of March 2021 time. I'd just moved back from London.

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 I was working at Deca Records as a publicist.

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 I was very much involved in the music industry at that time.

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 Unfortunately, because of COVID and everything that happened,

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 my job went from being 100% around people, being out and about in town,

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 traveling all over the world to America, Los Angeles,

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 all of these exciting things. Unfortunately, went completely online.

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 So it was a lot of this kind of thing. Lots of Zoom calls,

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 lots of seeing inside celebrities' houses, which was a bit unnerving.

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 You got to pull back the curtain a bit and see what A-listers were doing during the pandemic.

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 It was quite revealing. But I came back to the Isle of Man.

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 At the time, the Isle of Man was in full quarantine.

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 So I had to spend two weeks living in complete isolation in a holiday cottage,

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 which was pretty unnerving really at the time.

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 No visitors at all. My parents waved to me from the other side of the big garden

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 of this property that I was staying at.

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 But then I was kind of wondering at times before we reconnected,

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 because Nick and I were at school together. He was two years above me.

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 Before we reconnected, I was sort of thinking,

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 is my job ever going to be the same again?

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 I think all of those things that I really enjoyed about working in public relations,

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 which was basically all the face-to-face stuff,

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 the chaperoning people around, going to the BBC,

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 going to all these different interesting media places,

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 and being really directly involved in creating things with musicians, other musicians.

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 That never looked like it was ever going to come back again.

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 So I made the decision to kind of explore other opportunities, I guess.

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 And that coincided with the time that I met Nick.

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 We entered into a relationship.

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 And he said to me on our first date,

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 we were sat one meter apart on a park bench,

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 because it was still social distancing right then.

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 He said that his dream was to open a microbrewery.

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 I thought, well, yeah, that sounds like a bit of me.

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 I've got the skills to facilitate that.

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 If he can make the beer, I can, I guess,

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 create an event space, a venue, a taproom,

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 and create somewhere that people can come together.

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 And I guess the thing that everyone was missing at that time

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 was being around other people.

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 And I was really deeply feeling that lack of third places to kind of go

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 and have a nice pine and see other people.

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 And I think the acuteness of that feeling at the time,

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 plus the fact that Nick was an absolutely cracking home brewer.

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 I mean, he made some really fantastic beers of all different styles.

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 That's the point at which I thought we actually could,

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 we could give this a good go, I think.

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 Yeah, we could do this.

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 Yeah.

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 Definitely, yeah.

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 That's brilliant.

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 I mean, yeah, I mean, I've got a little bit of music background myself.

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 And I thought during COVID, it helped me produce a lot more music.

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 Obviously, I couldn't go nowhere.

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 So I just spent most of my days just making music all day long.

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 Yeah.

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 I couldn't see anyone, anyone, of course.

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 It was a creative time, wasn't it?

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 But it was not normal.

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 Yeah, definitely not normal.

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 But there was some absolutely cracking tunes coming out,

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 especially on the electronic side, which is where my background is from.

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 Nice.

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 Yeah, that's amazing how, you know, you said that obviously Nick's the brewery,

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 does a lot of home brewing, and he's drinking beer for free.

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 But obviously, coming out of COVID,

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 you really want to set up that social side of things.

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 And that kind of draws you in to focus on,

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 we're going to do this because we want this, we need this.

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 Yeah.

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 And the Isle of Man at the time was not very well set up for craft beer.

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 There was a fella running a bottle shop, which was very successful.

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 And there was also a few people sort of dabbling in kind of hazy beers,

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 but there wasn't really anything.

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 I mean, I'd come from central London,

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 so I was, you know, awash with all these incredible breweries.

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 You know, we were drinking beers by like the Colonel,

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 was one of my favorites.

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 And like, I was just surrounded by it

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 to the point where I didn't really think about it.

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 Like, I've always been a beer drinker,

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 but I took it for granted in a lot of ways

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 until I got back to the Isle of Man.

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 And realized that the only thing you could really get at the time

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 was the traditional cask ale,

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 lots of bitter, lots of brown ales, lots of dark ales,

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 just things that I wasn't really seeking out.

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 And I thought that, you know, between us,

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 we had the skills to bring that to the local market.

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 Yeah, definitely.

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 I mean, you take it for granted, don't you,

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 living in a big city like London,

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 where craft beer is accessible just down the road,

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 pretty much wherever you're living.

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 I always realized when I go away abroad

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 and really struggled to get a decent beer,

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 it's always like a standard lager.

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 And you never really get much craft beer

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 or, you know, them sort of styles of beer,

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 hazies and stuff like that.

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 So yeah, you really do miss it when you come back home.

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 You do.

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 First thing you do is go down to the pub

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 and have a decent beer.

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 It's the best place.

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 Obviously, when you decided that you were going to start a brewery,

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 did you kind of, what was the moment that kind of dawned on you

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 that you felt this is a mad leap into the unknown

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 or did it come quite naturally and easy for you?

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 I'm not the sort of person who's put off by a challenge.

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 So I kind of went into this perhaps a bit naively

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 and I kind of thought it can't be that hard.

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 And it was that hard.

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 I mean, it's just been five years of just graft.

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 I mean, I've never, you know, Nick's a qualified accountant.

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 He's done his accountancy qualifications.

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 I've worked in the music industry.

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 I've got like a teaching qualification.

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 I have never in my life worked as hard

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 as I have over the last sort of three or four years.

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 The amount of paperwork you have to go through,

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 the amount of, especially on the Isle of Man,

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 you have to have like local fire sign off.

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 I mean, you have this everywhere,

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 but it's a case of there's all these people

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 you need to ask to set up a license premises,

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 but nobody seems to quite know the order in which to do it.

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 So you've got to go to courts to get your license,

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 but you've got to go to police before you go to fire.

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 You've got to go to fire before you go to the courts.

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 You've got to have building control sign off

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 if you're doing anything to your premises.

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 You've got to have like drainage people in.

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 There was just so much administration

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 that was involved even before our first day of trading,

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 which was almost two years ago.

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 So yeah, it was,

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 if I'd known how much hard work it would be,

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 I don't think that would put me off.

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 Coupled with the amount of money it would cost,

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 I'd still probably do it,

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 but I'm glad that I didn't know how much work

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 and how much money it was going to involve

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 because neither of us were prepared for that at all.

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 Yeah, it's a lot of learning when you're starting up

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 your own business,

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 like when you're registering the company

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 and then you get bombarded with a load of letters

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 through the door.

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 Oh, congratulations on setting up your first business.

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 All that rubbish.

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 Obviously, how much of,

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 you say you're brewing in the Isle of Man,

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 you saw a gap in the market, I take it,

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 and decided that this was a perfect opportunity

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 to set up an independent brewery over there.

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 Yeah, for sure.

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 So we have two very long-standing

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 traditional, I guess, family breweries now,

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 Oakles who've been going for 175 years

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 and Bushies who've just turned 40.

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 So they were the big boys

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 who've been around for a very long time.

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 They're very well-established.

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 They know what they're doing.

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 Their operations are very slick,

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 but neither of them had at that point

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 when we were setting up

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 moved into the, I guess, the craft space.

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 They've started to now,

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 but I think Nick and I saw this opportunity, really,

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 to create the beers that we were drinking

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 when we went to Manchester.

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 One of our first trips away

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 when we were allowed to travel again

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 was to track in Manchester.

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 We spent all day going through their big menu board

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 drinking everything and just going,

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 I wish you could get this sort of beer

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 on the Isle of Man.

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 And obviously, those sorts of breweries

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 were still quite young, I guess.

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 They were turning five, six, seven,

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 but they were at the point

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 where they were very well-received.

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 They knew what they were doing.

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 We were kind of going,

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 we want to create these kinds of beers

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 and try them in the Isle of Man market.

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 And it was just the point

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 where we could take the new hops

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 that people were using.

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 We went to beer ex for the first time,

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 I think, in 2024.

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 We had a really nice time getting lots of samples

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 and learning from all the suppliers

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 about the different ingredients

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 that we could use.

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 It was all very hypothetical,

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 I think, up until that point.

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 But when we were actually able to go out

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 and taste all these beers that we were enjoying,

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 the idea of being able to bring that back

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 to the Isle of Man

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 and have people enjoy it as much as we did

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 was really exciting at that point.

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 Yeah, I bet that'd be amazing.

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 Just seeing how much

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 all the beers that you're brewing

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 is being received by the locals

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 and how much they're enjoying it.

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 I mean, that's why you've done it.

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 And all that hard work and graft

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 that you did before,

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 it's all worth it in the end, isn't it?

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 When you get them smiles at the end of the day

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 and people saying how great your beer is.

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 I mean, I don't know brewing myself,

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 but I've done a bit of brewing

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 and it's so nice to hear comments back

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 to say it's really good,

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 really nice beer, really enjoying it.

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 It's a bit of a double-edged sword

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 because we set up the tap room as well

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 at the same time.

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 So weirdly, the tap room was ready

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 to go before the brewery

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 because we needed cash flow.

246
00:11:23.810 --> 00:11:25.050
 So we've done all of this,

247
00:11:26.190 --> 00:11:27.570
 probably not wise to do this.

248
00:11:27.650 --> 00:11:28.910
 We've done all this with our own money.

249
00:11:28.910 --> 00:11:32.510
 So we're both mid-30s now.

250
00:11:33.330 --> 00:11:35.090
 We were working, Nick had a good job.

251
00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:37.710
 I had a fairly decent job a couple of years ago.

252
00:11:38.090 --> 00:11:39.870
 So we did this all with our own money

253
00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:42.490
 and we have had no bank loans.

254
00:11:42.790 --> 00:11:45.370
 We've had a couple of local government grants

255
00:11:45.370 --> 00:11:47.370
 to buy equipment, which has been great.

256
00:11:47.690 --> 00:11:50.010
 But we have to spend all of that money up front first.

257
00:11:50.050 --> 00:11:53.170
 So we started the tap room March 2024.

258
00:11:54.690 --> 00:11:56.090
 We pretty much just imported.

259
00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:57.790
 We didn't have any of our own beers at that point

260
00:11:57.790 --> 00:12:00.450
 because we needed to do stuff to the building,

261
00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:03.430
 which was an old local authority depot.

262
00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:05.150
 So it's kind of an old bin lorry garage.

263
00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:07.550
 Effectively what it is,

264
00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:09.230
 it's just an old kind of commercial garage

265
00:12:09.810 --> 00:12:11.250
 used by the local council.

266
00:12:11.770 --> 00:12:14.350
 So it needed a fair bit of work doing to it,

267
00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:16.490
 including putting a floor drain in.

268
00:12:16.530 --> 00:12:19.210
 So we had to open the tap room,

269
00:12:19.330 --> 00:12:20.750
 start selling other people's beer

270
00:12:20.750 --> 00:12:23.430
 in order to raise that kind of capital

271
00:12:23.430 --> 00:12:26.450
 to get the work done, to start brewing basically.

272
00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:28.930
 So that took probably six months.

273
00:12:29.910 --> 00:12:30.710
 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

274
00:12:31.030 --> 00:12:32.610
 So there were lots of things that we needed to do,

275
00:12:32.910 --> 00:12:34.630
 but we didn't have the money for it at the time.

276
00:12:34.670 --> 00:12:37.530
 So we thought we'd get our liquor license.

277
00:12:37.690 --> 00:12:39.010
 We'll get open for the spring and summer.

278
00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:43.150
 And it was really useful because we got to

279
00:12:45.330 --> 00:12:46.870
 have that face-to-face contact.

280
00:12:46.930 --> 00:12:47.830
 We staffed it ourselves

281
00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:49.670
 and have done for the last two years.

282
00:12:50.650 --> 00:12:52.970
 Having that contact with the customers

283
00:12:52.970 --> 00:12:55.170
 who we didn't know, we didn't know who was going to come.

284
00:12:55.170 --> 00:12:58.370
 So we're down in a village down in the south of the island.

285
00:12:58.430 --> 00:13:01.350
 It's beautiful in the summer, incredible beach.

286
00:13:02.190 --> 00:13:05.010
 It looks like somewhere in Cornwall or Ireland or something.

287
00:13:05.070 --> 00:13:06.590
 It's just absolutely gorgeous, Port Erin.

288
00:13:07.410 --> 00:13:09.310
 But we didn't know who was coming.

289
00:13:10.630 --> 00:13:13.530
 There were lots of people who came just to check it out

290
00:13:13.530 --> 00:13:16.030
 and came to just tell us that we were idiots

291
00:13:16.030 --> 00:13:18.130
 and we shouldn't be doing this and we weren't welcome.

292
00:13:20.170 --> 00:13:21.450
 Yeah, and that was tough.

293
00:13:22.390 --> 00:13:24.310
 They came and went very quickly.

294
00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:29.490
 And very soon after, we started building our local community

295
00:13:29.490 --> 00:13:31.870
 who have been just incredible.

296
00:13:32.150 --> 00:13:34.790
 They have supported us for the last two years.

297
00:13:34.850 --> 00:13:37.530
 They come in every single weekend when we're open.

298
00:13:37.670 --> 00:13:38.510
 They buy our beer.

299
00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:39.670
 They're friendly.

300
00:13:40.010 --> 00:13:41.410
 We've got to know their children.

301
00:13:41.890 --> 00:13:43.670
 It's just been fantastic.

302
00:13:43.810 --> 00:13:45.610
 And we can try out our beers on them

303
00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:48.810
 so we can put them straight on the bar at the tap room,

304
00:13:49.650 --> 00:13:50.770
 get that instant feedback.

305
00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:52.330
 And if somebody's like,

306
00:13:52.330 --> 00:13:53.470
 I really like that.

307
00:13:53.650 --> 00:13:55.210
 I wish it was not quite as strong.

308
00:13:55.410 --> 00:13:58.030
 So one of our core beers was an oatmeal porter,

309
00:13:58.450 --> 00:14:00.750
 which was one of Nick's original homebrew recipes

310
00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:02.630
 that we've now scaled up and developed.

311
00:14:04.550 --> 00:14:06.450
 Somebody came in and said,

312
00:14:07.290 --> 00:14:08.290
 my mate has a pub,

313
00:14:08.610 --> 00:14:10.470
 but I don't think you're going to be able to sell it

314
00:14:10.470 --> 00:14:11.610
 at that strength on cask.

315
00:14:11.970 --> 00:14:13.090
 So that was really helpful

316
00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:16.050
 because that ultimately affects our production

317
00:14:16.050 --> 00:14:17.290
 in a positive way,

318
00:14:17.310 --> 00:14:20.090
 which means that we didn't necessarily know that before.

319
00:14:20.090 --> 00:14:23.770
 But now that we've reduced it to sort of like 4.8%,

320
00:14:24.930 --> 00:14:27.390
 we can sell that in cask and keg,

321
00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:30.290
 and it kind of ticks both boxes then.

322
00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:30.990
 Yeah.

323
00:14:30.990 --> 00:14:32.150
 What was the original ABV?

324
00:14:33.010 --> 00:14:35.490
 I think it was about 5.6, 5.7.

325
00:14:37.150 --> 00:14:37.630
 Yeah.

326
00:14:39.310 --> 00:14:40.410
 So we dropped it down a little bit.

327
00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:45.010
 I think now we've just sent two Ferkins off

328
00:14:45.010 --> 00:14:46.550
 to the Liverpool Craft Beer Festival.

329
00:14:46.810 --> 00:14:47.890
 Unfortunately, we can't be there

330
00:14:47.890 --> 00:14:49.230
 because we're brewing this week.

331
00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:56.710
 But we've got a 5% porter and a 5.6% American IPA.

332
00:14:57.150 --> 00:15:00.070
 So those are both on kind of, I guess, the stronger side.

333
00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:03.030
 But we're very proud of those two.

334
00:15:03.310 --> 00:15:06.050
 And I think they taste really great.

335
00:15:06.110 --> 00:15:07.650
 I think they're really well balanced.

336
00:15:07.810 --> 00:15:09.750
 And I think I'm hoping they'll go down really well

337
00:15:09.750 --> 00:15:10.870
 with their audience there.

338
00:15:11.390 --> 00:15:12.470
 Balance is key, isn't it?

339
00:15:12.570 --> 00:15:14.210
 I feel, for any sort of style.

340
00:15:14.430 --> 00:15:15.950
 You've got to have that balance.

341
00:15:17.650 --> 00:15:20.070
 And automatically, the beer becomes drinkable

342
00:15:20.070 --> 00:15:23.250
 when there's balance in it, I believe.

343
00:15:23.870 --> 00:15:26.130
 It's an easy-drinking beer when it's nicely balanced.

344
00:15:28.490 --> 00:15:31.750
 Moving on to how the brewery is shaped

345
00:15:33.150 --> 00:15:35.850
 by logistics and stuff like that.

346
00:15:36.790 --> 00:15:38.610
 How much of your brewing decisions

347
00:15:38.610 --> 00:15:42.370
 go on logistics, ingredients, and equipment and stuff like that?

348
00:15:43.650 --> 00:15:47.210
 So at the minute, we are at the point

349
00:15:47.210 --> 00:15:49.730
 where we're about to send our first pallet off,

350
00:15:49.790 --> 00:15:51.950
 wholesale, to mainland England,

351
00:15:52.070 --> 00:15:52.950
 which is very exciting.

352
00:15:53.130 --> 00:15:53.890
 That's going on Friday.

353
00:15:54.430 --> 00:15:54.870
 Congratulations.

354
00:15:55.090 --> 00:15:55.410
 It is.

355
00:15:55.550 --> 00:15:56.090
 Thank you.

356
00:15:56.330 --> 00:15:57.390
 Yeah, it's taken a lot of work.

357
00:15:57.910 --> 00:16:00.350
 I knew that you were struggling to find a distributor

358
00:16:00.350 --> 00:16:03.090
 to take your stuff out there a while ago.

359
00:16:03.530 --> 00:16:04.370
 So yeah, congratulations.

360
00:16:04.510 --> 00:16:04.830
 Well done.

361
00:16:05.550 --> 00:16:08.490
 I think it's more just because this is not my...

362
00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:09.470
 I've never done this before.

363
00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:11.530
 So it is straightforward.

364
00:16:11.710 --> 00:16:13.410
 You kind of say, here is our product range.

365
00:16:13.410 --> 00:16:14.250
 Here is the price.

366
00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:15.230
 Here's what we're doing.

367
00:16:15.410 --> 00:16:16.870
 Here are the collaborations we're doing at the minute.

368
00:16:17.330 --> 00:16:18.130
 And people are...

369
00:16:19.630 --> 00:16:21.190
 It's fairly straightforward, I think.

370
00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:24.690
 It's just having the time to dedicate to building that...

371
00:16:25.230 --> 00:16:26.190
 I'm calling it export,

372
00:16:26.270 --> 00:16:28.090
 but I guess it's like imports and technically,

373
00:16:28.210 --> 00:16:31.070
 because it's going into the UK market.

374
00:16:33.090 --> 00:16:34.570
 Yeah, it's taken us a little while.

375
00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:36.790
 I think working out the prices of ingredients

376
00:16:36.790 --> 00:16:40.370
 and things like that, that's always going to be tough.

377
00:16:40.370 --> 00:16:45.170
 So the ferry company is owned by the Isle of Man government

378
00:16:45.170 --> 00:16:46.330
 and a private...

379
00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:50.290
 So it's like semi-private investors, semi-government owned,

380
00:16:50.810 --> 00:16:52.690
 but all of it is about shareholder value

381
00:16:52.690 --> 00:16:57.690
 and maxing out how much money they can make for their shareholders.

382
00:16:58.090 --> 00:17:00.230
 Some of which are obviously the people

383
00:17:00.230 --> 00:17:02.170
 who pay the taxes on the Isle of Man like us.

384
00:17:03.710 --> 00:17:05.150
 And we're the ones who, I guess,

385
00:17:05.170 --> 00:17:06.390
 if we have a small business

386
00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:08.609
 or if we're using it as a ferry passenger,

387
00:17:09.650 --> 00:17:12.230
 it's 400 pounds to take your car

388
00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:15.010
 on a two and a half hour journey every time.

389
00:17:16.670 --> 00:17:19.670
 And freight is the most expensive freight per mile

390
00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:21.190
 in the whole...

391
00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:23.550
 On the planet, it's the most expensive freight

392
00:17:23.550 --> 00:17:25.190
 for the distance.

393
00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:27.890
 We can get things shipped from China

394
00:17:29.510 --> 00:17:32.070
 for pretty much the same cost

395
00:17:32.070 --> 00:17:33.650
 as sending a couple of pallets over.

396
00:17:34.630 --> 00:17:36.470
 So we obviously have to think about that

397
00:17:36.470 --> 00:17:38.930
 when we're sending things back and forth.

398
00:17:39.170 --> 00:17:40.970
 We get all of our malt from Crisp.

399
00:17:41.110 --> 00:17:44.390
 We get our hops from Charles Faram

400
00:17:44.970 --> 00:17:48.330
 and Locker and a couple of the other merchants

401
00:17:48.330 --> 00:17:49.030
 that everyone uses.

402
00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:51.850
 They're very fair with their pricing,

403
00:17:51.850 --> 00:17:54.130
 but it is obviously something

404
00:17:54.130 --> 00:17:56.110
 we don't expect the UK businesses

405
00:17:56.110 --> 00:17:59.090
 to absorb completely because it is extremely expensive.

406
00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:01.930
 So what we tend to do is

407
00:18:01.930 --> 00:18:03.830
 if it's an outsized thing or a pallet,

408
00:18:03.830 --> 00:18:07.410
 we get it sent to a hub in Scalmesdale,

409
00:18:07.550 --> 00:18:09.050
 places near Warrington,

410
00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:10.190
 and then they forward it on.

411
00:18:10.670 --> 00:18:13.650
 This means that we're either making less money

412
00:18:13.650 --> 00:18:14.590
 than everybody else

413
00:18:14.590 --> 00:18:16.970
 or we have to price ourselves slightly higher.

414
00:18:17.370 --> 00:18:18.630
 And as a new brewery,

415
00:18:18.650 --> 00:18:20.730
 that's obviously a very fine line to tread.

416
00:18:21.350 --> 00:18:23.050
 So I think at the minute,

417
00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.890
 we're going in at a price that I'm fairly happy with,

418
00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:30.590
 but whether it actually works long-term,

419
00:18:31.170 --> 00:18:32.930
 it might be a case of a volume thing.

420
00:18:32.930 --> 00:18:35.290
 It might mean that we just have to really focus on export,

421
00:18:35.690 --> 00:18:38.590
 which will mean that that might end up being my full-time job.

422
00:18:39.030 --> 00:18:42.370
 And I have to step away from taproom management stuff

423
00:18:42.370 --> 00:18:43.830
 and pass that over to someone else,

424
00:18:43.850 --> 00:18:44.690
 which is a good thing.

425
00:18:44.750 --> 00:18:46.030
 I'm prepared to do that.

426
00:18:47.190 --> 00:18:51.490
 But yeah, it's a constant battle trying to figure out

427
00:18:51.490 --> 00:18:55.190
 how we can make sure that our products are fairly priced

428
00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:59.450
 in a way that doesn't do us out of the hard work

429
00:18:59.450 --> 00:19:00.310
 that we've put in.

430
00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:02.930
 But we're not ripping anyone else off

431
00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:04.130
 because at the end of the day,

432
00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:06.310
 it's not someone else's fault

433
00:19:06.310 --> 00:19:08.450
 that we pay so much for shipping.

434
00:19:09.510 --> 00:19:13.090
 Yeah, so you're having to pay literally the same fees,

435
00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:16.610
 as you said, from getting something from China.

436
00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:21.370
 And it's literally x amount of miles away from UK mainlanders.

437
00:19:21.570 --> 00:19:22.810
 You can see it on a clear day.

438
00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:25.090
 You can literally see where the boat goes in.

439
00:19:26.730 --> 00:19:28.930
 I suppose it's the same issues as Ireland.

440
00:19:30.010 --> 00:19:32.430
 I believe so, yeah.

441
00:19:35.010 --> 00:19:36.170
 What's been the biggest surprise?

442
00:19:36.550 --> 00:19:39.330
 We touched about the local drinkers coming out

443
00:19:39.330 --> 00:19:41.390
 to support you when you first opened up your taproom.

444
00:19:42.670 --> 00:19:43.650
 What's been the biggest surprise

445
00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:45.570
 about the local drinker behavior?

446
00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:50.830
 How readily people have embraced hazy beer

447
00:19:50.830 --> 00:19:52.170
 has been phenomenal.

448
00:19:53.010 --> 00:19:55.190
 Our best seller is called Hayboy,

449
00:19:55.190 --> 00:19:59.630
 which is a 4.5% session strength pale ale.

450
00:19:59.830 --> 00:20:00.850
 It's nicely hazy.

451
00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:03.750
 It's nothing to anything.

452
00:20:03.910 --> 00:20:05.130
 It's just really drinkable.

453
00:20:05.870 --> 00:20:06.570
 Low bitterness.

454
00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.310
 It's got a dry hop of mosaic in it.

455
00:20:09.370 --> 00:20:11.910
 It's a really delicious beer all year round.

456
00:20:12.290 --> 00:20:14.630
 That is our biggest seller in the Manx market

457
00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:16.510
 and including our taproom as well.

458
00:20:19.030 --> 00:20:22.230
 It's just the biggest seller by a huge margin.

459
00:20:22.770 --> 00:20:25.850
 The way that people have really got on board

460
00:20:25.850 --> 00:20:27.530
 with that beer has been incredible

461
00:20:27.530 --> 00:20:30.010
 because I was really worried about the hazy beers.

462
00:20:31.110 --> 00:20:32.710
 I think we had a few people who came in

463
00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:36.070
 to the taproom initially who were like,

464
00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:37.650
 you're going to have to sort that haziness out.

465
00:20:37.770 --> 00:20:39.190
 Nobody's going to buy that.

466
00:20:39.730 --> 00:20:42.250
 You just have to stick some findings in that.

467
00:20:42.950 --> 00:20:45.270
 We said, no, we are going to make hazy beers.

468
00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:46.850
 I'm sorry, all the beers are vegan.

469
00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:51.130
 We're not going to be talked out of that

470
00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:54.270
 by anybody who's just used to a certain type of beer.

471
00:20:57.030 --> 00:20:59.130
 Definitely the way that people just,

472
00:20:59.130 --> 00:21:01.010
 they expect hazy now, I think,

473
00:21:01.070 --> 00:21:02.290
 and a few of the other breweries

474
00:21:02.290 --> 00:21:03.670
 have started doing the same.

475
00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:06.670
 I think there's still a lot of breweries out there

476
00:21:06.670 --> 00:21:08.750
 that kind of stuck to their guns

477
00:21:08.750 --> 00:21:11.270
 and are still producing the same beer

478
00:21:11.270 --> 00:21:13.330
 that they did X amount of years ago.

479
00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:16.290
 Not embracing the new styles of beer,

480
00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.470
 the more modern styles, should I say.

481
00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:22.510
 And yeah, it's good that he stuck to your guns.

482
00:21:22.770 --> 00:21:25.850
 And I can only imagine the sort of people that were saying,

483
00:21:26.010 --> 00:21:27.550
 get rid of that haze, make it clearer.

484
00:21:27.990 --> 00:21:29.330
 I can picture them right now.

485
00:21:30.130 --> 00:21:31.590
 They've kind of come around to it though.

486
00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:34.210
 Yeah, I think one of the first people

487
00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:35.370
 who kind of came in and said that,

488
00:21:36.090 --> 00:21:37.570
 he's come back a few more times now

489
00:21:37.570 --> 00:21:38.670
 and he absolutely loves it.

490
00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:40.970
 And I see him like kind of quietly sat there

491
00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:43.930
 enjoying his half a hazy pint.

492
00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:45.710
 So I think, yeah, having that,

493
00:21:46.990 --> 00:21:47.890
 just kind of going,

494
00:21:47.890 --> 00:21:49.610
 this is how it's supposed to be.

495
00:21:50.290 --> 00:21:52.870
 And I guess it's not educating people,

496
00:21:52.990 --> 00:21:55.930
 but it's realigning their expectations

497
00:21:56.550 --> 00:21:58.690
 with the modern beer market.

498
00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:01.870
 And I think it helped as well that when we first set up,

499
00:22:02.010 --> 00:22:03.970
 we obviously weren't producing our own beer at that time.

500
00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:06.910
 We were getting in a lot of beer from places in the UK.

501
00:22:08.530 --> 00:22:10.570
 It wasn't eye-wateringly expensive.

502
00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:16.730
 I think we swallowed a lot of that cost at that time

503
00:22:16.730 --> 00:22:18.510
 just to try and get the beer out there.

504
00:22:19.550 --> 00:22:22.390
 But we had some really incredible beers

505
00:22:22.390 --> 00:22:24.370
 from places like Closet up in Edinburgh,

506
00:22:25.070 --> 00:22:29.310
 Duration, loads of really nice things from all over the place.

507
00:22:30.870 --> 00:22:32.890
 And having that opportunity to speak to people

508
00:22:32.890 --> 00:22:34.570
 and explain why things are hazy,

509
00:22:35.150 --> 00:22:37.070
 explain why things taste the way they do,

510
00:22:37.270 --> 00:22:38.810
 that's been really valuable.

511
00:22:38.930 --> 00:22:41.130
 And that's now evolved into brewery tours.

512
00:22:41.950 --> 00:22:46.210
 We're going to do some tastings as well this summer.

513
00:22:47.310 --> 00:22:51.150
 And just doing it in a way that's informing people

514
00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:53.470
 and also getting them to challenge themselves

515
00:22:53.470 --> 00:22:55.710
 and challenge their taste when they go out.

516
00:22:56.110 --> 00:22:57.890
 And when they have more choice,

517
00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:00.390
 they will seek these things out.

518
00:23:00.430 --> 00:23:03.570
 There's a fantastic independent bar in Douglas,

519
00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:06.090
 which is the main city now.

520
00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:08.690
 It used to be a town called Grain and Vine.

521
00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:11.030
 And they were the first to take our beer.

522
00:23:11.790 --> 00:23:15.210
 And they have something like 20 draft taps or something.

523
00:23:15.250 --> 00:23:16.210
 And you can go in there

524
00:23:16.210 --> 00:23:17.570
 and they do a lot of one and done.

525
00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:19.050
 So you can go in and get...

526
00:23:19.530 --> 00:23:22.370
 They had Daya's Steady Rolling Strata on keg.

527
00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:24.010
 And I was so sad that I missed it

528
00:23:24.010 --> 00:23:25.010
 because I just didn't see it.

529
00:23:25.070 --> 00:23:28.930
 It's pulled out so quickly that I didn't see they had it.

530
00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:29.830
 I was devastated.

531
00:23:30.910 --> 00:23:31.570
 But they've just...

532
00:23:32.590 --> 00:23:33.910
 They've as well gone,

533
00:23:34.070 --> 00:23:35.290
 no, this is what we're doing.

534
00:23:35.630 --> 00:23:37.850
 We're not going to have the same usual stuff

535
00:23:37.850 --> 00:23:38.970
 that's on everywhere else.

536
00:23:39.570 --> 00:23:42.450
 And the more people that do that

537
00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:44.650
 and the more choice the customers have on the Isle of Man,

538
00:23:44.650 --> 00:23:46.230
 the better it is for all of us

539
00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:47.750
 who are trying to do something a bit different.

540
00:23:48.250 --> 00:23:51.510
 And we owe a huge debt to all of those people

541
00:23:52.070 --> 00:23:54.310
 who came in the industry before us

542
00:23:54.310 --> 00:23:56.730
 and put in that work because it's very easy.

543
00:23:57.050 --> 00:23:58.210
 I've kind of thought like

544
00:23:58.210 --> 00:24:00.230
 we've had quite an easy time of it really.

545
00:24:00.370 --> 00:24:03.030
 I think maybe not on a local level

546
00:24:03.530 --> 00:24:06.530
 because we've done an awful lot of the...

547
00:24:06.530 --> 00:24:09.930
 We've worked very hard to try and get different beer styles

548
00:24:09.930 --> 00:24:12.030
 to the Manx market over the last couple of years.

549
00:24:12.090 --> 00:24:13.770
 There were people who obviously did that as well

550
00:24:14.410 --> 00:24:15.430
 in different ways.

551
00:24:15.810 --> 00:24:17.270
 But when we go to the UK,

552
00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:20.350
 understanding from other breweries

553
00:24:20.350 --> 00:24:23.990
 like the decades of work in some cases

554
00:24:23.990 --> 00:24:26.530
 that they've put in to build their businesses

555
00:24:26.530 --> 00:24:27.470
 to where they are now,

556
00:24:28.210 --> 00:24:30.690
 it's just, it's remarkable to see people

557
00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:32.450
 who are still going and going strong

558
00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:33.890
 after sort of 10 plus years.

559
00:24:34.570 --> 00:24:35.950
 Yeah, definitely is, yeah.

560
00:24:36.170 --> 00:24:38.550
 A lot of breweries hit 10 this year, I think.

561
00:24:38.570 --> 00:24:39.330
 Quite a few.

562
00:24:39.570 --> 00:24:39.690
 They did, yeah.

563
00:24:39.810 --> 00:24:40.730
 The big names, yeah.

564
00:24:41.130 --> 00:24:42.670
 I don't know what was happening in 2015.

565
00:24:42.670 --> 00:24:45.230
 I know, it was like a brewery boom.

566
00:24:45.350 --> 00:24:46.910
 Not a baby boom, but a brewery boom.

567
00:24:47.530 --> 00:24:49.410
 Everyone was opening up a brewery 10 years ago.

568
00:24:50.990 --> 00:24:53.590
 We're going to touch on the name of the brewery, Kiru,

569
00:24:53.890 --> 00:24:55.010
 and why you came up with the name

570
00:24:55.010 --> 00:24:55.970
 and what does it mean?

571
00:24:56.190 --> 00:24:59.690
 Yeah, so Kiru means quarter in Manx Gaelic.

572
00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:02.700
 We wanted something that kind of linked back to

573
00:25:03.690 --> 00:25:04.290
 our Manx roots,

574
00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:06.170
 like both myself and Nick are from the Isle of Man.

575
00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:09.550
 We wanted a word that was easy to say,

576
00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:10.530
 easy to spell,

577
00:25:10.550 --> 00:25:12.290
 and also something that didn't already exist

578
00:25:12.290 --> 00:25:14.470
 so that our Google rankings

579
00:25:14.470 --> 00:25:17.470
 and search engine optimization was decent.

580
00:25:17.950 --> 00:25:19.470
 Got to get good on them Google rankings.

581
00:25:19.850 --> 00:25:20.510
 Yeah, for sure.

582
00:25:21.070 --> 00:25:22.410
 But fundamentally, like Kiru,

583
00:25:22.450 --> 00:25:25.390
 it's all about working as part of a bigger team.

584
00:25:25.530 --> 00:25:27.990
 I mean, we are very upfront about the fact

585
00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:31.230
 that we've had a lot of input from other people.

586
00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:32.170
 We haven't had,

587
00:25:32.670 --> 00:25:35.050
 we don't have like parent money or anything like that.

588
00:25:35.050 --> 00:25:37.750
 We haven't had like gifts of thousands of pounds

589
00:25:37.750 --> 00:25:39.850
 to help set up our special project

590
00:25:39.850 --> 00:25:40.530
 or anything like that.

591
00:25:40.530 --> 00:25:43.110
 But we have had a lot of support from our parents,

592
00:25:43.250 --> 00:25:44.250
 emotional support,

593
00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:46.890
 both my parents, Nick's parents,

594
00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:48.970
 you know, they've been there

595
00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:50.110
 and they've sort of seen,

596
00:25:50.330 --> 00:25:51.510
 this was even before we launched.

597
00:25:51.650 --> 00:25:53.210
 So when we were kind of trying to figure out

598
00:25:53.210 --> 00:25:55.230
 the name and what we're doing,

599
00:25:56.210 --> 00:25:58.990
 we wanted something that everybody on the Isle of Man

600
00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:00.050
 could be proud of

601
00:26:00.050 --> 00:26:02.310
 and feel that they could be a part of as well.

602
00:26:02.530 --> 00:26:04.550
 We wanted the taproom to be inclusive.

603
00:26:04.990 --> 00:26:08.770
 We didn't want anyone to feel excluded in any way,

604
00:26:08.770 --> 00:26:11.810
 especially because I've always drank beer,

605
00:26:11.810 --> 00:26:14.290
 but I'm very conscious of the fact

606
00:26:14.290 --> 00:26:17.270
 that some female identifying people

607
00:26:17.270 --> 00:26:19.030
 might not necessarily feel welcome

608
00:26:19.030 --> 00:26:20.970
 in a craft beer environment.

609
00:26:22.310 --> 00:26:23.410
 I don't know if that's the case everywhere,

610
00:26:24.010 --> 00:26:26.470
 but I wanted it to be a place

611
00:26:26.470 --> 00:26:27.490
 where you could bring your dogs,

612
00:26:27.590 --> 00:26:28.250
 bring your kids.

613
00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:31.070
 So when we created taproom,

614
00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:33.110
 we wanted to make sure it kind of,

615
00:26:33.350 --> 00:26:34.370
 it was the ethos of career,

616
00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:36.390
 it was the ethos of collaboration,

617
00:26:36.470 --> 00:26:37.650
 community and togetherness

618
00:26:37.650 --> 00:26:39.110
 that we wanted to create.

619
00:26:39.310 --> 00:26:40.130
 And I think the name just,

620
00:26:40.870 --> 00:26:42.610
 it just, yeah, fit really well

621
00:26:42.610 --> 00:26:44.090
 and very proud of it.

622
00:26:45.550 --> 00:26:47.170
 How long did it take you to come up with your name?

623
00:26:47.510 --> 00:26:49.650
 I mean, how many drafts were there?

624
00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:51.190
 We want to hear some names

625
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:53.050
 that you came up with before Keru.

626
00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:54.930
 So this is so embarrassing.

627
00:26:56.570 --> 00:26:59.070
 So we were going to call it Rogue

628
00:26:59.070 --> 00:27:01.330
 and then for some reason,

629
00:27:01.330 --> 00:27:04.550
 we didn't know that there was Rogue Ales in the US.

630
00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:06.150
 I think we spoke to,

631
00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:08.250
 we registered the name and everything.

632
00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:09.710
 Like we were, we got the website.

633
00:27:10.810 --> 00:27:12.990
 Oh, this shows how naive we were, honestly.

634
00:27:13.310 --> 00:27:15.290
 We were like, oh yeah, Rogue's a great name

635
00:27:15.290 --> 00:27:16.990
 because we're like rebels and like,

636
00:27:17.070 --> 00:27:19.490
 you know, so embarrassing.

637
00:27:19.950 --> 00:27:21.150
 But yeah, we got to the point

638
00:27:21.150 --> 00:27:22.510
 where we were about to register it.

639
00:27:22.570 --> 00:27:23.950
 I think we mentioned it to somebody

640
00:27:23.950 --> 00:27:25.450
 at the Liverpool Craft Beer Expo

641
00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:25.990
 and they were like,

642
00:27:26.630 --> 00:27:27.990
 yeah, you obviously can't call it that.

643
00:27:28.490 --> 00:27:29.350
 We were like, why?

644
00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:30.290
 And they were like,

645
00:27:30.490 --> 00:27:31.810
 because there's a Rogue Ales already.

646
00:27:31.910 --> 00:27:33.270
 Like what's wrong with you?

647
00:27:34.870 --> 00:27:38.170
 So yeah, Rogue didn't work, obviously.

648
00:27:38.350 --> 00:27:39.890
 And then that was the point at which we were like,

649
00:27:39.910 --> 00:27:42.490
 well, it has to be something that doesn't exist at all.

650
00:27:42.890 --> 00:27:45.890
 You know, it has to be a word that is so distinctive

651
00:27:45.890 --> 00:27:48.250
 and so specific to us.

652
00:27:49.850 --> 00:27:50.370
 And I think, yeah,

653
00:27:50.370 --> 00:27:52.090
 we wanted something that was like vaguely,

654
00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.070
 Keru also kind of has links to like maritime-y type things.

655
00:27:57.210 --> 00:28:00.230
 Like the Isle of Man's a very seafaring sort of place.

656
00:28:00.570 --> 00:28:02.630
 We've got lots of history when it comes to

657
00:28:05.250 --> 00:28:07.230
 smuggling and pirates and things like that.

658
00:28:07.650 --> 00:28:08.430
 So yeah, we wanted it to be-

659
00:28:08.430 --> 00:28:10.250
 You could do that with some of your ex-boat in a bit of smuggling.

660
00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:10.970
 Yeah, exactly.

661
00:28:11.170 --> 00:28:12.970
 Just put on a fishing boat and just send it off

662
00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:14.350
 and then we don't have to pay for it.

663
00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:16.070
 I have considered that actually.

664
00:28:18.310 --> 00:28:19.590
 I'm very low points.

665
00:28:20.270 --> 00:28:22.950
 But yeah, so we had lots of chats about

666
00:28:22.950 --> 00:28:23.870
 what I'm going to call it.

667
00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:27.810
 But yeah, Keru seemed like the one, I think.

668
00:28:28.190 --> 00:28:30.550
 Yeah, I prefer Keru to Rogue.

669
00:28:30.550 --> 00:28:32.590
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

670
00:28:32.590 --> 00:28:34.910
 It's definitely more inclusive as well than Rogue.

671
00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:36.310
 I think so, I think so.

672
00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:41.530
 And I was very clear on no black and white, no skulls,

673
00:28:41.650 --> 00:28:43.130
 no pirate-y kind of things

674
00:28:43.130 --> 00:28:44.890
 when we came to doing the design work.

675
00:28:45.450 --> 00:28:47.450
 We wanted to create a brand

676
00:28:47.450 --> 00:28:49.230
 that was very bright and colorful

677
00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:52.430
 like our Ben and Jamie who pulled together

678
00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:55.290
 our initial brand guidelines.

679
00:28:55.490 --> 00:28:57.190
 They came up with loads of amazing colors.

680
00:28:57.850 --> 00:29:02.810
 And we wanted it to be super fun, super inclusive

681
00:29:03.750 --> 00:29:06.610
 and not something that anyone would look at and go,

682
00:29:06.790 --> 00:29:09.530
 yeah, that doesn't really feel like me.

683
00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:11.810
 And I think it works pretty well.

684
00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:12.790
 Yeah, exactly.

685
00:29:12.910 --> 00:29:15.350
 You want to put yours and Nick's

686
00:29:15.350 --> 00:29:17.130
 kind of personality behind it as well.

687
00:29:17.290 --> 00:29:19.050
 And for everyone to see

688
00:29:19.050 --> 00:29:21.370
 your personality going into the whole brand.

689
00:29:22.010 --> 00:29:25.050
 I think that's key to any sort of business

690
00:29:25.050 --> 00:29:27.010
 that you put your own personality into it.

691
00:29:28.630 --> 00:29:32.670
 Yeah, so what does success look like

692
00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:34.110
 for Karoo in the future?

693
00:29:34.310 --> 00:29:38.510
 Is it to do with bigger production

694
00:29:38.510 --> 00:29:41.570
 or nailing down them export prices

695
00:29:41.570 --> 00:29:44.270
 and trying to get that right?

696
00:29:45.470 --> 00:29:47.170
 Certainly for this year, 2026,

697
00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:49.530
 it's going to be about growing the brand

698
00:29:49.530 --> 00:29:51.030
 in mainland UK.

699
00:29:51.490 --> 00:29:53.010
 There's lots of opportunity for us,

700
00:29:53.010 --> 00:29:54.150
 I think, to get the beer out

701
00:29:54.970 --> 00:29:57.990
 into the wider kind of independent beer market.

702
00:29:58.590 --> 00:30:00.610
 It's something that I'm definitely going to be focusing on.

703
00:30:00.630 --> 00:30:02.910
 We're really lucky that we've had some

704
00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:05.730
 really nice people come forward to run the tap room.

705
00:30:07.570 --> 00:30:09.650
 We were talking to Vic and Mike at Colby

706
00:30:09.650 --> 00:30:10.890
 about this the other day

707
00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:13.190
 because I think they both have plans

708
00:30:13.810 --> 00:30:16.090
 to get a tap room as well somewhere in Liverpool.

709
00:30:17.870 --> 00:30:20.370
 And I was thinking, I was sort of saying to them,

710
00:30:22.070 --> 00:30:25.790
 it's really important that they don't fall into the,

711
00:30:26.030 --> 00:30:27.050
 well, we'll have to run it.

712
00:30:27.130 --> 00:30:28.430
 You have to get your staff in,

713
00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:29.350
 you have to get people in

714
00:30:29.350 --> 00:30:31.850
 who are really passionate about working for you.

715
00:30:31.930 --> 00:30:33.130
 I know that sounds ridiculous,

716
00:30:33.130 --> 00:30:35.470
 but people who actually want to be

717
00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:36.970
 ambassadors for your business.

718
00:30:37.110 --> 00:30:39.150
 And I think if you spend a couple of years

719
00:30:40.050 --> 00:30:42.270
 building the business you would like to work for,

720
00:30:42.590 --> 00:30:44.130
 then hopefully other people will as well.

721
00:30:44.190 --> 00:30:47.410
 So I'm really pleased to be able to get some staff in

722
00:30:48.110 --> 00:30:50.490
 who are going to be, yeah,

723
00:30:50.570 --> 00:30:53.590
 hopefully will do a fantastic job

724
00:30:53.590 --> 00:30:54.410
 of running the tap room

725
00:30:54.410 --> 00:30:56.790
 so that Nick and myself can focus on

726
00:30:57.670 --> 00:31:01.330
 beer production, export, recipe development,

727
00:31:01.410 --> 00:31:02.090
 just all those things

728
00:31:02.090 --> 00:31:03.850
 that we've kind of been looking forward to doing

729
00:31:03.850 --> 00:31:06.130
 because we've been doing a lot of the day-to-day.

730
00:31:08.190 --> 00:31:10.950
 Yeah, and there's still plenty of that to go.

731
00:31:11.250 --> 00:31:14.010
 But yeah, it's looking really positive at the minute

732
00:31:14.010 --> 00:31:15.370
 to, yeah, grow Karoo,

733
00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:18.590
 get the beer to different people in the UK.

734
00:31:18.690 --> 00:31:20.830
 Because I think we had a chat a couple of months ago

735
00:31:20.830 --> 00:31:23.090
 about how I was really keen to,

736
00:31:23.090 --> 00:31:23.950
 before we spoke,

737
00:31:24.270 --> 00:31:25.450
 make sure that we're at the point

738
00:31:25.450 --> 00:31:26.550
 where the beer was available

739
00:31:26.550 --> 00:31:27.790
 for people to get in the UK.

740
00:31:28.530 --> 00:31:29.270
 Because ultimately,

741
00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:31.730
 if people watching this can't get the beer,

742
00:31:31.810 --> 00:31:32.350
 what's the point?

743
00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:33.630
 Exactly.

744
00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:35.310
 So I'm really pleased that

745
00:31:35.310 --> 00:31:36.750
 we're now at that point in February,

746
00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:37.470
 which is great.

747
00:31:38.370 --> 00:31:39.070
 Brilliant, that's brilliant.

748
00:31:39.250 --> 00:31:40.930
 Yeah, so I'm talking about collaborations

749
00:31:41.790 --> 00:31:43.370
 and you've recently done one

750
00:31:43.370 --> 00:31:44.670
 with Colbeer,

751
00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:46.110
 which is why you was in Liverpool.

752
00:31:46.710 --> 00:31:47.490
 How did that go?

753
00:31:48.130 --> 00:31:49.690
 And what beer did you make?

754
00:31:49.750 --> 00:31:50.710
 What style of beer did you brew?

755
00:31:51.410 --> 00:31:52.330
 We had the best day.

756
00:31:52.750 --> 00:31:54.210
 So Vic and Mike who run Colbeer,

757
00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:56.490
 we were in the running with them

758
00:31:56.490 --> 00:31:59.090
 to get the CBER Business Award

759
00:31:59.090 --> 00:32:01.290
 for UK's Best New Brewery last year.

760
00:32:02.350 --> 00:32:02.730
 And fair play for both.

761
00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:03.850
 I was rooting for Colbeer.

762
00:32:04.810 --> 00:32:06.170
 Honestly, so was I.

763
00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:08.210
 They've done so, they're just amazing.

764
00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:10.230
 Their set up there is fantastic.

765
00:32:10.850 --> 00:32:12.110
 They're both just lovely people.

766
00:32:12.110 --> 00:32:14.070
 So we were really keen

767
00:32:15.070 --> 00:32:16.730
 after we've seen them a couple of times

768
00:32:16.730 --> 00:32:17.950
 over the last couple of months

769
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:19.290
 to do a collaboration.

770
00:32:19.830 --> 00:32:21.690
 And it's kind of dragged us out of winter.

771
00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:25.210
 We flew over to Liverpool on Sunday night,

772
00:32:25.350 --> 00:32:26.130
 brewed on Monday.

773
00:32:27.370 --> 00:32:28.730
 And it's going to be ready

774
00:32:28.730 --> 00:32:30.090
 in a couple of weeks time.

775
00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:33.170
 It's going to be a no-coast or mountain IPA,

776
00:32:33.350 --> 00:32:34.710
 which I believe is a mix

777
00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:36.970
 between East and West Coast styles.

778
00:32:37.550 --> 00:32:39.530
 Really fruity, a little bit bitter.

779
00:32:39.990 --> 00:32:40.610
 It's just going to be,

780
00:32:40.610 --> 00:32:42.550
 it's going to be absolutely just beautiful.

781
00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:44.050
 And we had such a nice day with them.

782
00:32:44.870 --> 00:32:45.850
 Yeah, is that going to be available

783
00:32:45.850 --> 00:32:46.730
 at BeerX as well?

784
00:32:46.790 --> 00:32:47.570
 I'm not sure.

785
00:32:47.590 --> 00:32:48.550
 You'll have to check with them.

786
00:32:48.650 --> 00:32:51.330
 I think hopefully mid-March.

787
00:32:51.370 --> 00:32:54.110
 So we both turn two next month in March.

788
00:32:54.370 --> 00:32:56.630
 So it's one of the collaborations.

789
00:32:57.190 --> 00:32:58.670
 Our birthday is the eighth.

790
00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:00.770
 I'm not quite sure when Colbeer are two,

791
00:33:00.770 --> 00:33:02.350
 but I think it's maybe later in the month.

792
00:33:03.430 --> 00:33:03.990
 Yeah, awesome.

793
00:33:04.410 --> 00:33:06.750
 Obviously I'll be in Liverpool in mid-March.

794
00:33:06.870 --> 00:33:08.570
 So I'm sure your beer will be available

795
00:33:08.570 --> 00:33:10.390
 somewhere in Liverpool at that time.

796
00:33:10.390 --> 00:33:14.310
 The day that we can walk into a pub in Liverpool

797
00:33:14.310 --> 00:33:17.890
 and see Karoo on a beer pub,

798
00:33:18.070 --> 00:33:19.890
 that's going to be a good day.

799
00:33:20.410 --> 00:33:23.330
 The beer seen over there is just fantastic.

800
00:33:23.930 --> 00:33:28.070
 So apart from the collaboration you did with Colbeer,

801
00:33:28.730 --> 00:33:31.070
 are there any new beer styles

802
00:33:31.070 --> 00:33:35.070
 or future projects that you're excited to explore?

803
00:33:35.690 --> 00:33:37.650
 Yeah, so in terms of other collaborations,

804
00:33:38.510 --> 00:33:41.070
 we're doing one with Chak in March,

805
00:33:41.430 --> 00:33:43.230
 which I'm absolutely thrilled about.

806
00:33:44.370 --> 00:33:45.050
 Dream come true?

807
00:33:45.690 --> 00:33:46.470
 I know.

808
00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:49.330
 So we're brewing on Tuesday,

809
00:33:49.330 --> 00:33:50.930
 it's Tuesday the 3rd of March.

810
00:33:51.610 --> 00:33:54.270
 It's an International Women's Day workshop day.

811
00:33:54.290 --> 00:33:55.490
 So I went to one of these,

812
00:33:56.210 --> 00:33:57.510
 I think three years ago

813
00:33:57.510 --> 00:33:59.330
 and just had the most incredible day.

814
00:33:59.510 --> 00:34:00.950
 The people I met that day,

815
00:34:01.070 --> 00:34:02.630
 I'm still good friends with.

816
00:34:03.090 --> 00:34:04.570
 They've been incredibly supportive of us

817
00:34:04.570 --> 00:34:05.230
 and our journey.

818
00:34:05.290 --> 00:34:05.910
 Because at that point,

819
00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:07.190
 I didn't have a brewery at all.

820
00:34:07.190 --> 00:34:12.710
 It was still in the administration at that kind of time.

821
00:34:14.610 --> 00:34:17.350
 So Amy, she looks after all the artwork

822
00:34:17.350 --> 00:34:19.969
 and all the graphics for Chak's beers,

823
00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:21.510
 which look absolutely incredible.

824
00:34:22.170 --> 00:34:24.130
 I saw her at the Women's Beer Awards

825
00:34:24.130 --> 00:34:25.889
 a couple of months ago and she said,

826
00:34:25.949 --> 00:34:27.530
 oh, it'd be great to have you guys up

827
00:34:27.530 --> 00:34:28.510
 for a collaboration.

828
00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:30.710
 And I kind of went away and was like,

829
00:34:30.790 --> 00:34:31.949
 what, me?

830
00:34:32.030 --> 00:34:33.270
 Me and Nick, really?

831
00:34:34.870 --> 00:34:36.550
 So it's going to be amazing.

832
00:34:36.550 --> 00:34:39.010
 Yeah, there's still some tickets available for that.

833
00:34:39.070 --> 00:34:39.909
 If anyone wants to come,

834
00:34:40.870 --> 00:34:42.210
 it's on Tuesday the 3rd of March.

835
00:34:43.090 --> 00:34:43.850
 Yeah, we're going to be there.

836
00:34:43.909 --> 00:34:45.790
 We're going to be doing some art stuff.

837
00:34:45.989 --> 00:34:48.130
 We're going to be drinking lots of incredible beer.

838
00:34:48.770 --> 00:34:50.370
 Very, very excited for that one.

839
00:34:51.449 --> 00:34:54.929
 We're also at the Liverpool Craft Beer Expo in June,

840
00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:57.230
 which is another incredible opportunity

841
00:34:57.230 --> 00:35:00.290
 that we never thought at year two

842
00:35:00.290 --> 00:35:02.090
 we'd be doing that kind of thing.

843
00:35:02.450 --> 00:35:03.770
 So yeah, absolutely delighted with that.

844
00:35:04.290 --> 00:35:04.930
 Oh, that's amazing.

845
00:35:04.930 --> 00:35:07.030
 Sounds like everything's going right

846
00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:08.390
 for you guys at the moment, you know,

847
00:35:08.950 --> 00:35:09.710
 which is good.

848
00:35:09.770 --> 00:35:11.970
 It's always good to have a positive,

849
00:35:12.190 --> 00:35:13.510
 everything's looking positive

850
00:35:13.510 --> 00:35:16.630
 and you're getting your beer into the UK mainland

851
00:35:16.630 --> 00:35:18.530
 and everything's going in the right direction.

852
00:35:18.630 --> 00:35:21.690
 It's such a positive thing to hear breweries talk about

853
00:35:21.690 --> 00:35:25.370
 rather than, well, we're basically fighting

854
00:35:25.370 --> 00:35:27.070
 to survive at the moment kind of thing.

855
00:35:27.410 --> 00:35:29.010
 It's been a tough time, I think.

856
00:35:29.330 --> 00:35:31.990
 It's just obsessing to see, you know,

857
00:35:32.110 --> 00:35:34.310
 what's kind of happening for a lot of people in the UK.

858
00:35:34.310 --> 00:35:36.530
 We're not immune to it.

859
00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:39.170
 We have costs are increasing.

860
00:35:39.470 --> 00:35:42.130
 Sometimes I worry that we've got no money even to,

861
00:35:42.410 --> 00:35:44.150
 we certainly don't pay ourselves yet.

862
00:35:44.250 --> 00:35:46.730
 Like I still work as a primary school teacher

863
00:35:46.730 --> 00:35:48.190
 for part of the week.

864
00:35:50.490 --> 00:35:53.010
 We suffer from, I guess,

865
00:35:53.050 --> 00:35:54.830
 all the same external influences,

866
00:35:55.130 --> 00:35:59.990
 but we're just so just doggedly determined

867
00:35:59.990 --> 00:36:01.870
 to make this work also

868
00:36:01.870 --> 00:36:03.770
 because it's our own money that we've invested.

869
00:36:04.310 --> 00:36:06.270
 And it would just be so heartbreaking

870
00:36:07.610 --> 00:36:11.470
 to let everything just come on top of us

871
00:36:11.470 --> 00:36:13.010
 to the point where we couldn't do it anymore.

872
00:36:13.250 --> 00:36:14.850
 We've got to find a way through.

873
00:36:15.290 --> 00:36:18.830
 It's just, there's no option at the minute

874
00:36:18.830 --> 00:36:20.370
 other than just to keep pressing on.

875
00:36:20.730 --> 00:36:21.730
 Keep pressing on.

876
00:36:21.990 --> 00:36:22.590
 That's it, exactly.

877
00:36:23.370 --> 00:36:25.130
 Determination will see you through, I'm sure of it.

878
00:36:25.410 --> 00:36:26.890
 And obviously your great beers that you do

879
00:36:26.890 --> 00:36:28.850
 will definitely help

880
00:36:29.610 --> 00:36:30.910
 because people will be buying it.

881
00:36:31.590 --> 00:36:33.070
 Yeah, people will.

882
00:36:33.930 --> 00:36:36.610
 Obviously you said you've started it up

883
00:36:36.610 --> 00:36:37.570
 with your own money.

884
00:36:38.810 --> 00:36:40.310
 What would you tell someone

885
00:36:40.910 --> 00:36:43.050
 who's in the administration process

886
00:36:43.050 --> 00:36:44.150
 like you guys were?

887
00:36:45.390 --> 00:36:46.590
 What would you tell someone

888
00:36:46.590 --> 00:36:47.930
 thinking of opening their brewery today?

889
00:36:48.050 --> 00:36:49.790
 What would be the first bit of advice

890
00:36:49.790 --> 00:36:50.570
 you'd give them?

891
00:36:51.550 --> 00:36:52.630
 We were talking about this

892
00:36:52.630 --> 00:36:53.970
 with Vic and Mike the other day.

893
00:36:54.510 --> 00:36:59.110
 I would have had the confidence

894
00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:00.490
 to have gone to a bank

895
00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:02.570
 this is knowing what I know now.

896
00:37:02.690 --> 00:37:04.150
 I would have had the confidence

897
00:37:04.150 --> 00:37:05.730
 to have gone to a bank and said

898
00:37:05.730 --> 00:37:08.850
 I need a loan to cover my startup costs

899
00:37:08.850 --> 00:37:11.990
 because we just did not appreciate

900
00:37:11.990 --> 00:37:13.670
 how expensive it was going to be.

901
00:37:13.890 --> 00:37:15.370
 We thought we had enough money

902
00:37:16.090 --> 00:37:17.610
 to get everything we needed

903
00:37:17.610 --> 00:37:19.390
 but we had a secondhand kit

904
00:37:19.390 --> 00:37:20.930
 that needed a load of things replacing.

905
00:37:21.550 --> 00:37:23.150
 We needed loads of things

906
00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:26.170
 done to the tap room to make it safe

907
00:37:26.170 --> 00:37:27.790
 and we needed to put fire exits in

908
00:37:27.790 --> 00:37:28.470
 and things like that.

909
00:37:28.470 --> 00:37:29.990
 We just had no idea

910
00:37:30.670 --> 00:37:32.530
 of the money that we'd need up front

911
00:37:32.530 --> 00:37:34.730
 before the turnover started

912
00:37:34.730 --> 00:37:35.750
 to come in from the tap room

913
00:37:35.750 --> 00:37:36.890
 and from the beer sales.

914
00:37:39.070 --> 00:37:41.030
 What I found really unhelpful

915
00:37:41.030 --> 00:37:42.290
 and what we really hated

916
00:37:42.290 --> 00:37:43.810
 was people just saying

917
00:37:43.810 --> 00:37:44.490
 just don't do it.

918
00:37:44.510 --> 00:37:45.410
 Why are you doing this?

919
00:37:45.970 --> 00:37:47.270
 Just don't do it.

920
00:37:47.850 --> 00:37:48.650
 That's not what you want to hear.

921
00:37:49.450 --> 00:37:50.650
 And also you're going to do it anyway.

922
00:37:51.030 --> 00:37:53.050
 You're going to do it.

923
00:37:54.990 --> 00:37:56.490
 I'd say definitely do it

924
00:37:56.490 --> 00:37:58.870
 because there are so many amazing things

925
00:37:58.870 --> 00:38:01.630
 about running a brewery and tap room

926
00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:06.710
 and the lifestyle in theory is fantastic.

927
00:38:06.890 --> 00:38:08.410
 I mean the fact that I don't have to sit

928
00:38:08.410 --> 00:38:10.750
 behind a desk and input numbers

929
00:38:10.750 --> 00:38:11.550
 into a computer,

930
00:38:12.790 --> 00:38:14.510
 that is just it's worth it.

931
00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:15.450
 It's worth the pain

932
00:38:15.450 --> 00:38:17.810
 and the amazing people that we've met,

933
00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:19.290
 the friends that we've made,

934
00:38:19.410 --> 00:38:20.950
 the opportunities that we've had.

935
00:38:21.070 --> 00:38:23.150
 I mean we're just doing

936
00:38:23.150 --> 00:38:25.350
 all these amazing things.

937
00:38:25.350 --> 00:38:27.130
 Day to day it's very hard

938
00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:29.890
 but in terms of the lifestyle

939
00:38:29.890 --> 00:38:30.850
 that you'd want to create

940
00:38:30.850 --> 00:38:32.670
 by I guess having your own business,

941
00:38:32.850 --> 00:38:34.610
 especially a hospitality business

942
00:38:34.610 --> 00:38:37.370
 which is very sociable.

943
00:38:37.650 --> 00:38:39.610
 It's just, I think it's worth it.

944
00:38:39.790 --> 00:38:40.750
 And at the end of the day

945
00:38:41.310 --> 00:38:43.610
 if we don't make it to year three

946
00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:45.330
 but we've done everything we can,

947
00:38:45.870 --> 00:38:46.910
 that's a success.

948
00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:47.950
 Like I will never see

949
00:38:48.770 --> 00:38:50.390
 the work that me and Nick have put in

950
00:38:50.390 --> 00:38:51.850
 as anything other than a success.

951
00:38:52.050 --> 00:38:53.630
 It's definitely not a failure

952
00:38:53.630 --> 00:38:56.510
 because we've done everything we should have done.

953
00:38:57.230 --> 00:38:58.870
 You're here, you're trading.

954
00:39:01.270 --> 00:39:03.850
 It might carry on for a few years,

955
00:39:04.010 --> 00:39:05.970
 it might carry on for a decade or two,

956
00:39:06.070 --> 00:39:07.530
 it might all end tomorrow

957
00:39:08.390 --> 00:39:10.930
 but I'd never regret it for a second

958
00:39:10.930 --> 00:39:13.230
 and I'm sure that we'll have

959
00:39:14.510 --> 00:39:16.550
 other opportunities in future

960
00:39:18.130 --> 00:39:19.750
 if something happened.

961
00:39:21.730 --> 00:39:22.710
 There's always going to be

962
00:39:22.710 --> 00:39:24.010
 more people setting breweries up.

963
00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:25.670
 I mean, we were talking about this the other day.

964
00:39:27.310 --> 00:39:28.730
 People's businesses sadly close

965
00:39:28.730 --> 00:39:31.370
 but there are also innovations within the industry.

966
00:39:32.170 --> 00:39:32.890
 Things are happening,

967
00:39:33.010 --> 00:39:34.870
 there's lots of low and low being brewed

968
00:39:34.870 --> 00:39:35.830
 which is awesome.

969
00:39:36.350 --> 00:39:38.150
 It's good to have employees as well

970
00:39:38.630 --> 00:39:40.290
 and I just think there are so many

971
00:39:40.290 --> 00:39:42.870
 amazing creative people within this industry

972
00:39:44.570 --> 00:39:46.010
 that it's worth it.

973
00:39:46.010 --> 00:39:47.410
 It's worth doing this

974
00:39:47.410 --> 00:39:48.690
 and starting this journey

975
00:39:48.690 --> 00:39:49.690
 if that's what you want to do.

976
00:39:50.210 --> 00:39:51.570
 We're looking forward to going to beer recs

977
00:39:51.570 --> 00:39:52.870
 and just meeting all these new people

978
00:39:52.870 --> 00:39:55.210
 who were probably like we were

979
00:39:55.210 --> 00:39:56.110
 a couple of years ago,

980
00:39:56.250 --> 00:39:57.150
 a lot less grey

981
00:39:57.150 --> 00:40:00.650
 and a lot less sort of dead-eyed looking

982
00:40:00.650 --> 00:40:01.650
 than we are now

983
00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:04.050
 who are just starting their journey

984
00:40:04.050 --> 00:40:07.070
 and I'd be very encouraging

985
00:40:07.070 --> 00:40:08.790
 of anyone who wanted to do this

986
00:40:08.790 --> 00:40:10.690
 but just make sure you've got enough money.

987
00:40:10.970 --> 00:40:12.570
 If we could go back in time

988
00:40:13.310 --> 00:40:15.110
 we'd probably have kept our full-time jobs

989
00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:15.850
 for a bit longer

990
00:40:15.850 --> 00:40:19.150
 but because of the way we set the tat room up

991
00:40:19.150 --> 00:40:20.130
 we couldn't.

992
00:40:20.130 --> 00:40:21.570
 It was just too much work

993
00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:22.750
 we needed to be there

994
00:40:22.750 --> 00:40:23.890
 staffing it every weekend.

995
00:40:25.310 --> 00:40:26.950
 I'm not that young anymore

996
00:40:26.950 --> 00:40:28.590
 and Nick's two years older than me

997
00:40:28.590 --> 00:40:29.270
 so yeah.

998
00:40:31.630 --> 00:40:33.370
 Yeah, so we're going to end

999
00:40:33.370 --> 00:40:34.770
 on this final question

1000
00:40:35.930 --> 00:40:38.950
 and this is kind of like a scenario kind of thing.

1001
00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:40.650
 If someone was to walk into a pub

1002
00:40:40.650 --> 00:40:42.010
 in five years

1003
00:40:42.010 --> 00:40:45.050
 and sees a keru beer on the bar

1004
00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:46.490
 what do you hope

1005
00:40:47.090 --> 00:40:49.550
 that they already feel or know about the beer

1006
00:40:50.430 --> 00:40:51.490
 at the brewery

1007
00:40:51.490 --> 00:40:52.890
 before they even take their first sip?

1008
00:40:52.970 --> 00:40:55.990
 I would like people to know

1009
00:40:55.990 --> 00:40:57.150
 that we're from the Isle of Man

1010
00:40:57.150 --> 00:40:58.410
 because I think that's...

1011
00:40:59.690 --> 00:41:01.390
 Yeah, it's not critical

1012
00:41:01.390 --> 00:41:04.310
 but it's very central to who we are.

1013
00:41:04.330 --> 00:41:06.110
 We're very proud to be from the Isle of Man.

1014
00:41:06.730 --> 00:41:09.250
 We use a lot of Manx artists

1015
00:41:09.250 --> 00:41:12.070
 to create our pump clips

1016
00:41:12.070 --> 00:41:14.770
 and our can designs.

1017
00:41:15.290 --> 00:41:18.450
 Very important for us to pay people money

1018
00:41:18.450 --> 00:41:19.560
 to create our...

1019
00:41:20.270 --> 00:41:21.770
 To create, you know,

1020
00:41:21.930 --> 00:41:23.330
 to basically be part of our brand.

1021
00:41:25.250 --> 00:41:27.470
 It leans into the whole being part of

1022
00:41:28.050 --> 00:41:30.730
 a greater community project, I guess.

1023
00:41:31.010 --> 00:41:31.890
 We love that.

1024
00:41:31.930 --> 00:41:33.470
 So I'd like people to be able to see that

1025
00:41:33.470 --> 00:41:35.090
 and go, oh, that looks nice.

1026
00:41:35.410 --> 00:41:36.830
 Because I think at the end of the day

1027
00:41:37.290 --> 00:41:38.730
 the first impression they get

1028
00:41:38.730 --> 00:41:42.450
 is of what it looks like on the bar.

1029
00:41:44.610 --> 00:41:47.530
 So it's got to look

1030
00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:49.470
 really bright and colourful.

1031
00:41:50.010 --> 00:41:50.970
 I hope people,

1032
00:41:51.550 --> 00:41:52.990
 maybe if they hadn't heard of us,

1033
00:41:53.330 --> 00:41:55.550
 I hope people would maybe recognise something.

1034
00:41:55.750 --> 00:41:58.830
 We use a lot of foraged things.

1035
00:41:59.050 --> 00:42:00.670
 We used some foraged seaweed

1036
00:42:01.270 --> 00:42:03.570
 in a beer that went down really well last year.

1037
00:42:03.570 --> 00:42:04.810
 We're going to recreate that again.

1038
00:42:04.950 --> 00:42:07.010
 I think once people get over the fact

1039
00:42:07.010 --> 00:42:07.850
 that it's not fishy,

1040
00:42:08.850 --> 00:42:10.630
 I think they're quite on board with that.

1041
00:42:12.270 --> 00:42:14.030
 So I like to think that people

1042
00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:17.070
 would just give it a go

1043
00:42:17.070 --> 00:42:19.450
 and hopefully that the collaborations

1044
00:42:19.450 --> 00:42:21.790
 that we're doing, we love doing collabs.

1045
00:42:21.930 --> 00:42:23.230
 So if anybody is listening to this

1046
00:42:23.230 --> 00:42:24.750
 and is like, oh, I'd love to come over

1047
00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:26.910
 to the Outlook Man and do a collab brew

1048
00:42:26.910 --> 00:42:30.530
 or get us over to somewhere in the UK

1049
00:42:30.530 --> 00:42:31.990
 or further afield, that'd be great.

1050
00:42:32.430 --> 00:42:33.470
 More than happy to do that.

1051
00:42:33.750 --> 00:42:36.870
 We're just so up for any kind of

1052
00:42:36.870 --> 00:42:38.430
 partnerships with people.

1053
00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:42.410
 Hopefully people will just give the beer a go

1054
00:42:43.170 --> 00:42:46.710
 and taste the hard work that we've put into it.

1055
00:42:47.070 --> 00:42:48.810
 I think collaborations are good,

1056
00:42:48.870 --> 00:42:51.570
 especially for new breweries like yourselves

1057
00:42:51.570 --> 00:42:55.210
 to learn about how other breweries

1058
00:42:55.210 --> 00:42:56.910
 are developing their recipes,

1059
00:42:57.730 --> 00:42:59.130
 learning new equipment as well

1060
00:42:59.130 --> 00:43:00.370
 because obviously everyone uses

1061
00:43:00.370 --> 00:43:02.590
 different equipment and different practices.

1062
00:43:02.950 --> 00:43:05.070
 And I think it's amazing

1063
00:43:05.070 --> 00:43:07.690
 how good the scene is at coming together

1064
00:43:07.690 --> 00:43:10.130
 and no one's against each other.

1065
00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:12.130
 No one's trying to outsell each other.

1066
00:43:12.150 --> 00:43:15.810
 Everyone's in it to help you succeed as a brewery

1067
00:43:15.810 --> 00:43:18.730
 because we want as many UK independent breweries

1068
00:43:18.730 --> 00:43:23.090
 as possible to showcase that we have

1069
00:43:23.090 --> 00:43:25.570
 some great brewers and some great breweries.

1070
00:43:26.990 --> 00:43:27.810
 Yeah, so that's amazing.

1071
00:43:28.810 --> 00:43:29.650
 Yeah, if anyone is listening,

1072
00:43:30.810 --> 00:43:32.470
 anyone in particular in mind,

1073
00:43:32.530 --> 00:43:33.250
 any breweries in mind

1074
00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:34.630
 that you'd love to go and collaborate with?

1075
00:43:34.790 --> 00:43:36.390
 Yeah, I'd love to do something

1076
00:43:37.810 --> 00:43:39.670
 with maybe like Fine Ales

1077
00:43:39.670 --> 00:43:41.810
 or maybe the Origins Project,

1078
00:43:41.970 --> 00:43:43.950
 like Dan's Origins Project sounds amazing.

1079
00:43:43.950 --> 00:43:49.450
 I'm a really big fan of all these kind of wild ales

1080
00:43:49.450 --> 00:43:52.150
 and things that I guess link to the local area.

1081
00:43:52.390 --> 00:43:54.010
 Like we're quite big on that

1082
00:43:54.010 --> 00:43:56.210
 and with our pilot series

1083
00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:58.510
 that we're going to start developing this year,

1084
00:43:58.910 --> 00:44:01.970
 we're going to use as much of the resources

1085
00:44:01.970 --> 00:44:03.730
 available to us from the local area.

1086
00:44:04.310 --> 00:44:06.130
 So we have lots of wilds.

1087
00:44:06.130 --> 00:44:07.210
 We've got things that are in the sea

1088
00:44:07.210 --> 00:44:08.910
 like the seaweed and the samphire and things,

1089
00:44:09.770 --> 00:44:11.830
 but lots of wild blueberries,

1090
00:44:12.430 --> 00:44:13.970
 lots of fruits and stuff,

1091
00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:16.710
 hedgerow stuff that you can use in smaller batches.

1092
00:44:18.730 --> 00:44:23.430
 And it would be great to learn from a brewery

1093
00:44:23.430 --> 00:44:25.070
 who does that regularly

1094
00:44:25.070 --> 00:44:27.630
 because it's a little bit of a departure

1095
00:44:27.630 --> 00:44:29.170
 from the standard,

1096
00:44:29.450 --> 00:44:30.950
 like we do like lagers,

1097
00:44:31.730 --> 00:44:33.530
 pale ales, IPAs, stouts,

1098
00:44:33.670 --> 00:44:34.610
 porters, that kind of thing.

1099
00:44:35.130 --> 00:44:37.650
 Just doing like a collaboration

1100
00:44:37.650 --> 00:44:40.130
 with a brewery who do something a bit different,

1101
00:44:40.130 --> 00:44:42.270
 that would just be so interesting.

1102
00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:45.190
 And even if we never ever did our own version of it,

1103
00:44:45.570 --> 00:44:47.470
 that would be a really great opportunity, I think.

1104
00:44:48.110 --> 00:44:48.870
 Yeah, amazing.

1105
00:44:49.630 --> 00:44:53.350
 On that note, it's been absolutely amazing to talk to you.

1106
00:44:53.450 --> 00:44:54.930
 Shame Nick couldn't join us as well.

1107
00:44:55.070 --> 00:44:55.790
 He's busy brewing.

1108
00:44:56.410 --> 00:44:57.530
 He's brewing today, unfortunately.

1109
00:44:58.010 --> 00:45:00.350
 That's more important than appearing on a podcast,

1110
00:45:00.450 --> 00:45:01.050
 that's for sure.

1111
00:45:01.990 --> 00:45:02.690
 We need that beer.

1112
00:45:02.790 --> 00:45:03.610
 We need that beer made.

1113
00:45:03.850 --> 00:45:04.410
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1114
00:45:04.410 --> 00:45:05.570
 Sorry, I can't make the brewery today

1115
00:45:05.570 --> 00:45:06.830
 because we're appearing on a podcast.

1116
00:45:07.050 --> 00:45:07.870
 That doesn't work.

1117
00:45:08.910 --> 00:45:10.750
 Yeah, but it's been amazing talking to you.

1118
00:45:11.130 --> 00:45:12.590
 And I'll obviously see you at BRX

1119
00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:13.770
 and we can catch up again.

1120
00:45:14.650 --> 00:45:16.150
 And obviously get to speak to Nick as well.

1121
00:45:16.210 --> 00:45:18.250
 It'd be lovely to see how you guys are going on.

1122
00:45:18.910 --> 00:45:20.270
 And yeah, until then,

1123
00:45:20.370 --> 00:45:22.190
 a couple of weeks' time, we'll see you again.

1124
00:45:22.610 --> 00:45:24.450
 Thanks again, Elizabeth, for joining the show.

1125
00:45:25.210 --> 00:45:25.590
 Catch you later.

1126
00:45:25.970 --> 00:45:26.330
 Bye-bye.